DONT FORGET YOUR KNIFE!

Is the rumor true that some newbies had a little mishap on High E at the gunks and had to cut the rope on some girl that was hanging in space screaming after not making the crux move?

One can only hope.

Tom Hanson wrote:One can only hope.

lol

Anyone? Anyone at all? I NEED TO KNOW!

This is shaping up to be the best thread ever. I once had a girlfriend hanging in space screaming on CCK Direct, I was worried hikers on the carriage road were going to call 911.

R

Edit:

First person witness on page 8
Involved party witness on page 17

The involved party witness is on page 16.

This kind of reminded me of the final scene in the Eiger sanction when Clint cuts the rope to get into the tunnel.... I bet that guy won't be getting too nice of a XMAS present from his sister this year, what a jerk! IMHO

I knew some people who were in the area at the time. I guess the yelling and screaming was memorable. Kinda too bad I was in the Near Trapps that day. I wish I'd seen it myself.

Mark Cushman wrote:Involved party witness on page 17

It's now on page 16. Posted by a dude named "Tim."

I can't believe the 'Gunks is even more of a Gong-show now than when I climbed there a bunch of years ago. Wow...

BTW, what's a day pass cost there these days? $20 yet?

Thanks for the post.

--Marc

After reading the Gunks.com post, I have to say that I'm a little amazed that nobody was seriously injured in all of this. I'd like to know how she cut the rope and took a factor 2 fall onto the anchor while (presumably) holding a knife without cutting herself.

I have _NEVER_ taken a factor 2, or anything even close to it, but when I have taken harder falls I doubt I would have been able to hold onto a knife like that, especially if I was scared, which she clearly was.

Although I love climbing at the Gunks I'll admit that I've seen some scary scary stuff, most of it 100% preventable. When you think about it, our sport is a little unique. Many other sports that involve a similarly high degree of objective danger involve careful licensing regimes to minimize how much danger people inadvertently get themselves into. For example - there are licensing requirements for sky divers and you can't refill a SCUBA tank unless you have a license. Of course these measures aren't fool proof, but there is a structure. In contrast, any fool with a credit card can buy enough climbing equipment to kill himself and all his buddies in a single act of stupidity.

I'm not suggesting that we should have this sort of a system but it is kinda interesting to me that climbing has managed to dodge this sort of a requirement for so long. This is especially true at a crag like the Gunks. I can't even count the number of stupid stupid incidents I've seen that a little training / education / experience would have prevented.

Andy Choens wrote:Many other sports that involve a similarly high degree of objective danger involve careful licensing regimes to minimize how much danger people inadvertently get themselves into.

Andy Choens wrote:any fool with a credit card can buy enough climbing equipment to kill himself and all his buddies in a single act of stupidity.

As it should be. You can't prevent stupidity by trying to regulate sales of equipment. Most climbing accidents I hear of typically involve more experienced climbers anyway.

Andy Choens wrote:I'm not suggesting that we should have this sort of a system but it is kinda interesting to me that climbing has managed to dodge this sort of a requirement for so long. This is especially true at a crag like the Gunks. I can't even count the number of stupid stupid incidents I've seen that a little training / education / experience would have prevented.

More and more landowners are requiring certifications and insurance in order to guide on their land. A lot of places (JTree, I think) require AMGA certification and a certain level of liability insurance before you can guide there. This at least sets a standard on guides and clients who pay guides to take them climbing - especially because the guide is responsible for the safety of the clients. Individuals who want to climb together should share the responsibility of being safe and shouldn't have restrictions or the burden of certification in order to enjoy climbing.

Hmmmm...I finally read "Tim's" account. I'd say for someone who was so panicked, it was remarkable she could summon the nerve to cut the rope. Must have took a lot of convincing.

What a bunch of gumbies.

If I remember right, 3rd pitch to Erect Direction reads something like if the second should fall an epic may ensue. Gotta love the place.

budman wrote:If I remember right, 3rd pitch to Erect Direction reads something like if the second should fall an epic may ensue. Gotta love the place.

True. True. If the second falls I hope they have slings/prusiks or jumars because that's they only way up once you fall off P3. But I think you'd have a hard time convincing me to cut the rope if I got stuck out there.

What's the matter not into the Hollywood thing. Lotta years ago had a girlfriend fall at the roof to Elder Clevage. 3:1 was just enough to get her to the lip to make the move. Don't think I'll ever here the end of that one. Self rescue surely part of the learning curve. But I know climbers with 10 or more years experience and glaze over at it's mention.

Gumby party of 3? Your table is ready...

You should always carry the necessary tools to make your preferred friction knot be it a prussik, hedden, klemheist, or bachmann (or if you want to out-gumby yourself an autoblock).

I really hope this brings self-rescue to the forefront of at least a few peoples minds...

IF THE ONLY KNOT YOU CAN TIE IS A FIGURE 8 YOU ARE NOT READY TO CLIMB OUTSIDE GUMBY!!!

No not even sport...

As for the team that helped her down...is that the best you've got? Call around to other parties for some help, figure the situation out, its not like it would have killed her to sit there for a bit longer...

Cutting a rope is like a fist fight...it is a last resort and the result of a cessation of logic, that and nobody wins...

Andy Choens wrote: I'd like to know how she cut the rope and took a factor 2 fall onto the anchor while (presumably) holding a knife without cutting herself. .

Factor 2 fall? according to the pg 16 post, she tied into an anchor that was slightly above her waist. The he pulled the rope tight. she was on top rope at that point.

I believe "her" belayer was well above her and didn't/couldn't doll out slack, so the rescuer had her cut the rope to transfer her weight to his anchor.

"Our lead climber ascended to the roof with our second rope and setup and anchor. He put the rope through the anchor, which was slightly above her waist. She was close enough to grab our rope and tie in using a figure 8 knot. Then I put on her on belay. With the rope tight her feet were about a foot or so from the cliff. Still we heard nothing from her leader. Therefore we suggested she cut the rope and when she did she landed softly on to the cliff as if on a top rope."

Well that makes more sense. I only read the part on page 8. I guess I should have read farther. The guys on Modern Times made the fall out to be a lot harder than it was I guess.

I still don't think I would have cut the rope. No way. No How.

I find it interesting that the "rescuing" climber didn't think of finishing the climb and telling the genius at the top to lower his partner. She could have been pulled in to the ledge fairly easily and it would have been a lot less complicated than rigging anchors or performing some form of self-rescue.

Sometimes we humans over-think things and make it all much more complicated than it needs to be. Just glad this didn't end any worse than it did.

shawn bradley wrote:I believe "her" belayer was well above her and didn't/couldn't doll out slack, so the rescuer had her cut the rope to transfer her weight to his anchor.

I can't think of too many scenarios where it is impossible to let out slack. The one scenario I can think of is if the belayer was using a ATC Guide or similar device in auto-block mode and doesn't know how to release it for lowering. As much as I love my Guide, I've seen more than one cluster-&^%$ because people don't take the time to learn how to use it properly.

:-)

For the record, most of us here in NY aren't complete Gumby material.

:-)

Andy Choens wrote: For the record, most of us here in NY aren't complete Gumby material. :-)

if you want to see true gumby material just follow a group from CO at Indian Creek for a day.

my 85 bucks a year at the Gunks is possibly the best 85 bucks I've spent on climbing ever.

LOL!

My brother lives in Denver and he and his friends go out to Indian Creek pretty regularly. I would have to disagree. If you want to see TRUE gumby material follow a Gunks climber around for a day at Indian Creek. I proved (repeatedly) that the Gunks is poor preparation for splitter crack climbing.

Big surprise, I know.