Best bolt type

I am wondering what the best bolt would be to place in somewhat crappy Dolomitic Limestone in winter conditions. Main purpose is for top and lowering anchor for ice climbing in an old quarry.

Burt Lindquist wrote:I am wondering what the best bolt would be to place in somewhat crappy Dolomitic Limestone in winter conditions.

Best? Petzl Bat'inox would do the trick, methinks.

en.petzl.com/petzl/SportPro…

Cheers,

You might have a problem with those glue ins in cold conditions as the epoxy usually has a set-up temp range above freezing.

If you have crappy limestone I would go with 75mm Fixe Triplex, preferably in stainless. You could also go with plated 5 piece powers bolts, but they might not have as long of a life expectancy if in seepy or run off locations. If you go with the 5 piece I would recommend 1/2" x 3 1/2" for anchors.

Thank you Thank you for your responses... I have heard that the Petzel glue-ins require 32F and above (with best results in even warmer conditions)and that the are pricey plus a bit a chore to place (quality of the drill hole is crucial?) and a real chore to ever replace. I am no expert though and just am gathering info in order to get the best results. The rock is pretty much absolute choss (crumbly and mossy) but there are a few places where the integrity seems to be adequate for a bolt placement. Any thing will be better then the V-Thread arrangements currently in use (with a nest of screws also added for TR beefiness). Some one has also suggested a Rawl 5 piece in the longest version available? I will keep checking and comparing.

Burt Lindquist wrote:Thank you Thank you for your responses... I have heard that the Petzel glue-ins require 32F and above (with best results in even warmer conditions)and that the are pricey plus a bit a chore to place (quality of the drill hole is crucial?) and a real chore to ever replace. I am no expert though and just am gathering info in order to get the best results. The rock is pretty much absolute choss (crumbly and mossy) but there are a few places where the integrity seems to be adequate for a bolt placement. Any thing will be better then the V-Thread arrangements currently in use (with a nest of screws also added for TR beefiness). Some one has also suggested a Rawl 5 piece in the longest version available? I will keep checking and comparing.

None of the above. Skip the Bat in ox for sure. Price them out, @ $20 each. You can get strong for much cheaper.

Burt, epoxy will outperform everything else in the world in your application. Everything. Hands down, by a wide margin. Europeans use glue ins extensively, and the chossier the place the more likely it will be glue in.

With todays modern drills and bits, theres no reason you don't buy 1/2-13 x 6 ' long stainless steel all thread rod, cut the friggan things up in 1 foot or even 2 or 3 foot long pieces depending on how bad your choss actually is, buy long assed drill bit and epoxy the rod into the limestone and put a standard stainless hanger on it. Just get the non-quick dry version of the 2 part epoxy that is rated for creep and have at er.

Here's a link to some more links on epoxy information. cascadeclimbers.com/forum/u…

Fixe makes a hanger for 1/2" diameter rod (they call it a 13mm, don't buy the 12mm) I'd also check out Braxton Norwoods site for some other shizzel you might like. renobclimbing.com/

The massive stainless ring bolt hangers he has would be kick assed for toprope anchors. I didn't see them on his site, you might email him. In fact, I'd email your request, he might have something up his sleeve that will work perfect for you, I saw he was doing a new type of glue in that would most likely outperform everything else out there.

Side note: epoxy, and glass capsules, have a shelf life that varies by product, 2 years for most, at your peril: don't ignore this warning- do not buy old stuff!

If you are going to epoxy, learn everything you can about it, hole sizing and cleanliness is critical. The point about installing in sub zero temps is worth re-reading. Most of this stuff will fail if you install it in sub 40 degree temps, but construction crews do work with it in the winter, but you need to check the Mfg specs carefully and follow the instructions religiously and you should be fine. If it says don't use in less than 32 degree temps then you don't do it. If it says use a 5/8 drill bit for 1/2" rod, do that. Mfgs have spent large sums testing and checking their stuff, read their literature multiple items and follow it to a T.

Excellent- I love even more ideas.. I am not adverse to a glue-in - maybe just cost of the glue-in mostly. This sounds like a very reasonable option and I am quite sure it will be easy enough to drill a 1-3 foot hole (3 feet seems too long but what do I know??) in the very suspect quarry rock. A power drill for sure with holes that deep...

Thanks for all this info and suggestions...

Burt

Burt Lindquist wrote: This sounds like a very reasonable option and I am quite sure it will be easy enough to drill a 1-3 foot hole (3 feet seems too long but what do I know??) in the very suspect quarry rock. A power drill for sure with holes that deep...

I re-read this 3 times. I'm curious as to how you came about determining that you need a 3-foot deep hole.

Do yourself a favor and go and find the closest Hilti store. They'll get you dialed in, either with expansion or chem-bolts. If you do decide with the chem-bolt system, follow the directions to the T!