Looking for trad climbing partner

My friend and I (both sport climbers) are looking for someone to climb with to learn trad. We climb 5.10-11a/b on sport routes. We live in the Mesa area and regularly travel around AZ climbing.

Perhaps you should consider taking a lead class with the AMC (or other organization). Alternatively, there are several good guides here in AZ that can provide instruction. I have several friends that would be happy to teach you how to lead trad (for a fee). In fact, I would be happy to instruct you in trad techniques, for a fee. In any case, PM me for names for local guides.

I dare say that it will be difficult to simply try to hook up with someone who does lead trad. In fact, I would be suspect of anyone that will volunteer their time to teach you how to lead trad (unless, of course, they need a belay slave). I would suspect that most of us that love trad would rather be climbing.

Or somebody that spends 95% of the time traveling on the road. I will be in New Mexico in two weeks and would love to get out and climb and I don't have a problem teaching any trad. We will be safe and have a blast while doing it! Get ahold of me if you interested!

Too bad people feel they have to charge someone for something that is supposedly a community effort, ie... possibly helping people in this sport. Person with said offer wants to charge and doesn't mention that he is a guide or instructor; yet wants to charge for something that he is suspect of:

"'I would be suspect of anyone that will volunteer their time to teach you how to lead trad (unless, of course, they need a belay slave).'"

Robert has a nicer and better approach, in my opinion at least.

Capitalism, got to love it.

no1nprtclr wrote:Too bad people feel they have to charge someone for something that is supposedly a community effort, ie... possibly helping people in this sport.

A community effort? umm. Well, I would surmise that, yes, climbing is a community effort in many ways. For instance, I think it is helpful and appropriate to give beta on climbs and approaches. I am always willing to help a fellow climber out. As a "community" we should also uphold common values wrt maintaining an ecologically friendly footprint. We should also always help out a climber in need. I have taken a few first aid classes to make me less ignorant when it comes to emergency needs of climbers. Of course, I need to take more.

no1nprtclr wrote:Person with said offer wants to charge and doesn't mention that he is a guide or instructor; yet wants to charge for something that he is suspect of: Capitalism, got to love it.

I think my tone (and intent) may have been misinterpreted; I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say. My suggestion was, simply, that there are valued resources out there for climbers to gain quality instruction. IMHO there is much to be gained by a climber taking a lead class, an anchors class, a self rescue class, etc.

I am (I think rightfully) suspect of simply hooking up with any ol climber w/o knowing much about their abilities; e.g. are they safe? Can I trust their judgement when the situation becomes dicy? How do they react under stress? Can I trust my LIFE in their hands? How can you find fault with my position? i.e. Would you disagree with the safely aspect of argument? Do you feel that quality instruction is not useful?

And, "no one in particular", why do you not use your real name?

no1nprtclr wrote: Capitalism, got to love it.

This doesn't involve 'capital' so it has nothing to do with 'capitalism.'

I accepted money as a guide some time ago, and tips too! Does that make me bad?

My uncle is a doctor. He charges money for his services. And my father, a teacher. If education is 'free and public' is he bad for charging for his time? Does it take a village of volunteers?

I'm not saying that I agree with either particular side here 100%, but why slam the free market? Someone is as free to turn down a fee-based program as they are to accept it.

"I am (I think rightfully) suspect of simply hooking up with any ol climber w/o knowing much about their abilities; e.g. are they safe? Can I trust their judgement when the situation becomes dicy?"

But you would have no problem recommending someone who charges that person to learn trad?
So whats the difference between hooking up with an experienced trad climber who has been leading safely for years and is willing to generously donate his/her own time to help a fellow climber out and someone who only will do it if he/she is being paid?
Seems to me the only difference is money.
You did say you "I would suspect that most of us that love trad would rather be climbing."
Well, some of us learned to climb purely from the generosity of others who donated their precious time and would be happy to pass on what is undeniably a wonderful gift.
So im trying to sound like im not attacking, and what you are saying is correct probably - most trad climbers wont take the time to show someone new the ropes, unless of course they are getting paid(which in my opinion doesn't speak too highly of their character). but some will..
And to the original poster, I live in the phoenix/tempe area Id be happy to take you out for a day for a free trad lesson.
You are welcome to make your own judgments on how safe or qualified I am.

and i agree to some extent to what tony has said. People are free to choose. And there certainly is a limit to how much time someone would want to spend teaching someone for free. Its a personal choice, you want to charge, great. But Im just chiming in to add that there are options out there for the original poster.

David Arthur Sampson wrote:In fact, I would be suspect of anyone that will volunteer their time to teach you how to lead trad (unless, of course, they need a belay slave).

Did it ever occur to you that some people simply enjoy sharing their love of climbing? Do you think said people would be unsafe, bad instructors, or otherwise incapable of doing whatever a professional instructor/guide does? BTW, just because someone gets paid for doing something doesn't mean that they actually know what they're doing...

Richard Radcliffe wrote: Did it ever occur to you that some people simply enjoy sharing their love of climbing?

Ok, so perhaps I was in a mood the day I wrote that post? In retrospect the comment was a bit .. lame. Shoot me. Now. Again!

To Fing funny
Where did you meet your climbing partners? Were they Church, Parent or gym approved?
I have done big walls with someone I have never been tied in with before the climb. Bob Gentry one of the best partners ever.
I had a partner who I had done dozens of climbs with come unglued on a wall. Turned out bad....
I was once on a wall where three parties of two converged at a ledge. The next day I went up with party B my partner went down with party C and party A was no more.
To that Rule guy and Nettles guy thanks for taking that Noob backpacker on his way to Santa Barbara to chase girls for the weekend on a side trip to J Tree 12-12-76.
What an experience to wake up having never been to JT. What a wild landscape to see from my sleeping bag.
Then to go climbing no words can express how grateful I am.
To all the partners I have met in 30+ years Thank for climbing with a stranger.
To the guy who’s partner didn’t show at Cathedral May 78 Thanks.
To that Loeks guy 78 in the Gunks you seem to know how to belay.
That group at Devils Lake 78 I thank You.
That Todd Guy in a Teepee at Devils Tower 83 he did a mean belay dynamic not that Gym crap. Told funny stories and got around saw him in the Valley, Jtree and a place or two more.
To the half a dozen or so climbers I have met this year that I have and still do climb with at Lumpy, Eldo, BC, 11Mile, South Platte, Vedauwoo and Flagstaff to mention a few places this year ….Thank you …..Life is Good.
I have only been dropped once. It was by a regular partner. He stopped me after dropping me twenty feet after I hit a ledge five feet off the deck. He stammered but you've never fallen before.
No shit and you should have been watching me instead of the two gals sun bathing in bikinis.
No gear pulled and I had a solid nut at my waist when I fell.
I never climbed with him again.
PS this is not directed at any post just my Rant.

Not to worry, we all have our off days :)

David Arthur Sampson wrote: Ok, so perhaps I was in a mood the day I wrote that post? In retrospect the comment was a bit .. lame. Shoot me. Now. Again!

Maurice; thanks. I guess I am having a really bad day.

Those that know me know that I have, even just recently, hooked up with a "stranger" to climb. Two weeks ago at J-tree I climbed a week with Greg (punk kid; nickname that Tauru gave him) who I had just met. He had hitched from WA to J-tree and had NEVER climbed Trad. He showed up at our camp site looking for a place to put his tent. He turned out to be a great guy; I climbed with him all week. AND, I put him on his first Trad lead (we did Beginner One on the back side of the Blob).

So, for those that don't know me, please don't judge me too quickly.

David Arthur

David Arthur Sampson wrote: So, for those that don't know me, please don't judge me too quickly. David Arthur

I agree, sounds fair!

"...most trad climbers wont take the time to show someone new the ropes, unless of course they are getting paid(which in my opinion doesn't speak too highly of their character). but some will..."

Yeah, some will--eh, Maurice. How's things anyway?

Curt

David don't apologize. You shouldn't let people browbeat you into an apology. Someone asked a question, and you gave him a couple of possible solutions. Then you told him about the possible difficulties of finding a competent & willing mentor. Nothing wrong with that.

I am a friend of David, and have personally seen him teach less experienced climbers about climbing, most recently Greg that he mentioned earlier. However, that doesn't mean he has the time to mentor everybody that wants it. I suspect that if the people responding (except Tony) knew David they might have responded differently.

Maurice Liddy wrote: So whats the difference between hooking up with an experienced trad climber who has been leading safely for years and is willing to generously donate his/her own time to help a fellow climber out and someone who only will do it if he/she is being paid? Seems to me the only difference is money.

Although I see your point I respectfully disagree. The reason is that when hiring a certified climbing guide you are almost guaranteed to be learning from a knowledgable & safe trad climber. When you find some stranger on the internet to be your trad mentor, the odds aren't as good. I mean, you may luck out and find a great mentor who is knowledgable, safe, experienced, and kind. However, you also may find yourself learning from someone who doesn't know their stuff, is only marginally experienced, teaches unsafe practices, or misrepresents their experience and/or skills.

Maurice Liddy wrote: ...and what you are saying is correct probably - most trad climbers wont take the time to show someone new the ropes, unless of course they are getting paid(which in my opinion doesn't speak too highly of their character)...

Like Tony, I again respectfully disagree. Just b/c someone makes their living teaching climbing doesn't bring their character into question. I make my living as a climbing guide, and was surely one of the local guides that David was speaking of. Yet that supposedly "doesn't speak too highly" of my character? Just like doctors & teachers & preachers, who do those services for money, the fact that they are paid for it doesn't diminish their character. And FWIW, I have taught MANY people to climb, and to lead trad, for free. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that I volunteer more time doing so than you do.

So anyway, to the OP: Sorry to contribute to the thread drift. It just seemed like David was getting some undeserved flack. If you want my 2 cents on the matter, listen to David's initial post. Furthermore, if I were you, I would probably jump at the chance to take Maurice up on his offer. I don't personally know him or his experience level, but you are looking for a trad teacher and he seems to be offering to teach you. Take him up on it.

Just my 2 cents. I hope it works out for you.

-Mike

ok, ok, sounds great. The guy asked for someone to take him out teach him trad. It seems logical that the only replies in this thread should start something like this "I will do it" end of story. Anything else at all is off topic, although we do love a little banter off topic, don't we? We should have some sort of sub thread where people can air this stuff. But anyway, the thread wasn't a waste, he got some offers and some decent advise.
As an interesting aside Curt is one of those people who took me and friends out to show us a bit of jamming technique - for free :)
And to mike and others, thanks for keeping it civil. Its nice to see on these forums.

Wow this thread has realy taken off since I posted it. I haven't even had a chance to check it in a while (building a garage at my house, Mt Biking and climbing take a lot of time away from the computer). I guess since I have had great experiences meeting climbers on this site (Jodie, Marcy, Matt, Casey, Holly and everyone else that I had the pleasure of doing my first multi pitch with on Mars Attacks) this is where I come when I want to find someone to climb with. Thanks for all the advice and offers to let me climb with you.

Matt

(The guy asked for someone to take him out teach him trad. It seems logical that the only replies in this thread should start something like this "I will do it" end of story. Anything else at all is off topic, although we do love a little banter off topic, don't we?)

Perhaps it made us ask, when was the last time we took the time.
I think more positive came out than negative.
Can not say I have done it a lot (climbed with newbie’s). Not enough for sure....
I have climbed with one newbie two + months on the rock following 5.9. She emailed me she did her first lead and leader fall. Still finished the lead And at 40+ to boot.

If you're in Tucson look me up, I'd be glad to show you around Mt. Lemmon and do some trad. Only been climbing trad a couple of years so I'm no expert.

A class from Jeff Fasset seems pretty reasonable considering the instruction you receive could save your life. The two guys I've mentored into sport climbing booked with him for a day of trad instruction for $250 (i.e. $125 each). Check with him for firm details.

When I wanted to start leading trad I had only followed and cleaned a couple of pitches. It was summer and Jeff only guides here in the winter so I just bought a rack and got on the easiest stuff I could find and learned as I went along. I got on a lot of easier mixed routes. When I climbed above my first nut it wiggled out and slid down the rope. But the route was only 5.6 and mixed so I ran it out to the next bolt. I was dumb enough to buy a bunch of hexes of which I only ever placed one (where a perfect cam would have gone in anyway).

I put my name out there as a partner and learned a lot from everyone I've roped up with. (thanks Seth, Joe, Geir, etc)

Mind you everyone does things a little different. Some people rack a bunch of cams on one biner and put a trad sling on every placement. Some people put one biner on each cam and take a few trad slings for extending placements. Some people use quickdraws to clip on to trad gear.

Anyway, trad climbing is f*cking awesome, have fun!

I will climb trad with you. I will not give you a class but I will show you the ropes I have 30 years of experience and when I learned or taught we would never think of charging. I have taken gym climbers and worked to break them of all the bad habits and they all went on to climb well outdors.
I will be in town Dec 22-Jan 1
Francisco

I don't mind teaching trad. Have done so for years. I live in Fort Collins Colorado and if I am heading down to Chocise Stronghold or Mount Lemon we can hook up. Send me an E-mail to charlesperry@remax.net.