Stashed Crash Pads in RMNP

I did a survey of my own and looked at peoples' profiles. It seems that many people on this site don't even boulder and if they do, they don't climb hard enough to send any of the pebbles in the Park outside of the "warmups", therefore it seems that most of you probably haven't even been to Chaos. Am I right? lets take a poll? Who has actually been there to climb? My only point in saying this is not to offend, but to ask how can you talk trash on the subject if you've never even been there to see for yourself.

I've been climbing up there all season and have not seen 1 single pad laying around, let alone any pads chewed up by marmots. I'm not saying whether it's right but the people that stash, hide them well and are respectful. the reason people stash is for safety - have you ever climbed alone? Have you seen the landings? it's not always possible to get your 9 person posse. if you have ever been to chaos, chances are you benefited from one of the stashed pads yourself and were happy (at the time) to have that extra pad!
I spoke with one of my "trad" climbing friends and she told me that a friend of hers (one of you who has posted here on this drama) called her last month to ask if she'd hike someones gear up to the diamond and "stash" it for them. How is that different? The marmot will find and chew on the gear, it doesn't know or care how long it's been there. I just don't understand the hypocracy.

here's some quotes for ya:

"I hate bouldering" John J Glime
"I cashed my rope & rack overnight" - John Hegyes
"I don't consider my self a boulderer" - James Beissel

just some thought I had....

if you've been up there all year then you should have seen the pad thawing out under "nothing but sunshine" that was hiked out by me. you would have also seen the one under tommys and automator, and the one that is sitting at eternia as we speak.

give me a freakin break, and don't be afraid to sign your name.

Mark Nelson wrote: ... I boulder myself quite a bunch, usually solo, bouldering is great fun. ...

Gee, H-Dawg, I guess your analysis failed to get this one. Look at my profile, Oh, not a single rating on a boulder problem, so what?? I still go out and play on them. I just don't leave pads around. What does leaving pads around wilderness have to do with this?

H-Dawg:
I have bouldered at Chaos for five years, but I have not gone there this year. I have never used a stashed pad, but I have seen them. I have also noticed more and more trash every year. While I do not boulder as hard as many who go there, I have climbed problems that are harder than the "warm-ups" and have terrible landings. It is nice to have a lot of pads for these problems, but stashing pads is not the answer. I also believe that you should not stash gear for a trip up the Diamond, and this practice should stop. Therefore, I am not hypocritical on this stance. For a discussion by the bouldering community, check out frontrangebouldering.com's message board.

H-Dawg,

I am guessing that I am the one you are referring to about calling a friend to see if she wanted to earn $150 to hike someone's gear into the Diamond. Even if I am not that person, I did call a female friend in Estes to see if she was interested so I will reply to your post.

First let me say that I probably know you and am sorry if my opinion has offended you. Ironically, I take the stance I do to preserve the privilege of bouldering in Chaos Canyon and to help ensure other climber privileges by not annoying the NPS by blatantly breaking the rules.

You say that you have been there all season and have not seen a single pad? What do you say to the multiple people here who claim to have seen so many?

You also asked why it is different to me to carry someone's gear to the Diamond than it is to stash pads in Chaos?

There are may reasons this is different to me but the most obvious answer is that it's not against the rules to stash gear below the Diamond for up to 24 hours which means there should be no access issues. The person who was soliciting the porter had a very specific time which made me believe that he would be climbing the next day.

Another reason is that I believe we should do our best to Leave no Trace in the wilderness of RMNP.

The bottom line for me though is access. Things can change FAST... just look at Arches NP.

If you want to talk about this more, send me an email. It may also be worth noting that I made multiple calls to friends in Estes (including the one mentioned above) asking them to spread the word that pads stashed in Chaos were not safe anymore and to get them soon if they had any up there.

hoping I haven't ruined a friendship,
Brad

It's ok that my truck is leaking a quart of oil a day into the local aquifer because I drive faster and better than all of YOU and I have a perfect driving record to boot. All of my neighbors have complained, but I told THEM I didn't see no leak! So there! signed, T-DAWG. DAWG(Dumb Ass White Guy)

I wasn't trying to offend anyone,But the point i was trying to make is that unless you've been up there and/or are a boulderer I don't understand how you can rant and rave when you haven't seen the situation for yourself. How would you feel if we boulders took it upon ourselves to get the Access Fund to clean up all the fixed gear out there.... including fixed ropes, draws on your projects, webbing at the belay stations, etc.

And yes, Brad, you indeed do know the friend I am talking about, and she told me that you have NOT been up there this year. so the things that you say must be based on what others are saying. I don't take it personally and I hope you don't either, but a stash is a stash. if it's LNT, then LNT all the way baby. It shouldn't be acceptable for some and not for all. I agree, access is the issue, and i will do my part to keep access open. i just wanted to give my 2 cents b/c it pisses me off that people are talking trash when they don't boulder and/or haven't been up there (i haven't been to Evans so I can't say anything about that situation).

BTW(SETH), I do agree that if pads are left under boulder problems they should be removed especially if they're all torn up.

H-Dawg wrote:I wasn't trying to offend anyone,But the point i was trying to make is that unless you've been up there and/or are a boulderer I don't understand how you can rant and rave when you haven't seen the situation for yourself. How would you feel if we boulders took it upon ourselves to get the Access Fund to clean up all the fixed gear out there.... including fixed ropes, draws on your projects, webbing at the belay stations, etc. And yes, Brad, you indeed do know the friend I am talking about, and she told me that you have NOT been up there this year. so the things that you say must be based on what others are saying. I don't take it personally and I hope you don't either, but a stash is a stash. if it's LNT, then LNT all the way baby. It shouldn't be acceptable for some and not for all. I agree, access is the issue, and i will do my part to keep access open. i just wanted to give my 2 cents b/c it pisses me off that people are talking trash when they don't boulder and/or haven't been up there (i haven't been to Evans so I can't say anything about that situation). BTW(SETH), I do agree that if pads are left under boulder problems they should be removed especially if they're all torn up.

H-Dawg

If it really isn't your intention to offend anyone, then you might reconsider your use of phrases like "ranting and raving" - especially to a crowd of people, many of whom have been climbing in these mountains for a very long time.

This isn't about who boulders more or harder than the next guy. It is about respecting the wilderness environment by not leaving your trash and personal belongings there. There is no excuse for leaving those pads up there, and your premise that it is a safety issue is absurd on the face of it. You climb at your own risk. That is your responsibility, just as is packing out your trash and gear. We climbed on these boulders long before crash pads were ever invented. As a filmmaker and sports photographer, I regularly carry a pack full of gear weighing more than sixty pounds. I backcountry ski, hike, climb and rig with it, and I am forty-seven years old. I'm not trying to lay the I-used-to-walk-twenty-miles-to-school routine on you, although I am trying to drive home the point that young, fit boulderers can easily hoof their crash pads in and out of the hills. Not to do so is just laziness.

I am not trying to be a hard ass, H-Dawg. I just feel that you aren't getting it and that your attitude about this topic might be pervasive among the others in your crew. Like I said before, I am all for your efforts to push the limits of bouldering, although you need to realize that climbing in these areas is a privilege, not a right, and this practice is jeopardizing future access for us all.

We all are part of the same community, and we need to have each other's backs on this issue.

One more thing, you would be taken a lot more seriously if you attached your real name to your posts.

KC

Are people still trying to put their $.02 on this issue w/o reading what has already been said?

Hey Dawg, stashing gear for longer than 24 hours is illegal. I don't care if you are a cave diver, boulder, redneck who's quad broke down, or a baby momma hiding a carriage. It's all bad.

Booty the gear that got left on the route if it bothers you so much. Whatever, the person who left that gear knew that they were risking it being aquisitioned by someone else when they left it. C'est la vie brotha. Gear left behind on trad routes is typically left b/c the climber had no choice in the matter (had to bail or just couldn't make it). When it is purposely left...well dude...fair game, unlike this pad rescue that is being organized in which responsible climbers of all disciplines (Caver's included) are making a conscious effort to get the neglected pads back to their beloved owners (provided they are willing to pay the rangers the fine associated with abandoning personal property in a national forest). Sucks dude, but when you break the rules sometimes you gotta pay the piper.

Hey guess what dude, I haven't been up there to see the carnage either. from the pictures I have seen and the descriptions I have heard, it sounds like there are a few things that need to be taken care of. I will argue all points relevant to LNT all day b/c all my mountaineering career LNT has been a practice I abide, respect and condoned long before I climbed as a wee boy scout trudging through the Presidential Range of NH. If you don't like it start buildering, don't be surprised when a bum pisses on your stashie, and don't cry when you get slapped with a $200 littering ticket from the boys in blue.

No argument can reverse the fact that leaving something behind is wrong no matter what you do. The only exception is that sometimes climbers need to or they will die vs sometimes a climber chooses to b/c they are lazy. Draw your own conclusions, just don't try to base a coersion on a crock of malarchy.

Pads have disapeared at an alarming rate, the clean up is taking place and well underway. Let's do something more productive with the adopt a crag day. The word got out and people have stepped up. Everyone knows it is a problem and the issue is self policing itself. Let's find a better adopt a crag objective and stop this thread so we can use our energy somewhere else.

How about a diamond clean up. I was up there last week, so much tat and there are fixed ropes and gear all the way up the dunn west bay. How about a descent gully clean up of all the major formations in the park. There is tat all over the petit gully between the sabre and the petit from people that can't find the bolted descent. There is the same on Notchtop from people that can't find those descent bolts as well. Let's all split up and climb major formations in the park and see how much tat and dropped gear can be retrieved. Send a team into fields chimney and you will hit the booty jackpot. Clean up all the bivy sites as well. I find old cans and food trash everytime I am up there.

I know this would be a very risky clean up and is probably inappropriate from a liability stand point, but we would come out with more tat and trash than we will pads at this point.

My 2 cents.

THANK YOU! The US Forest Service would like to say a big thanks to Amy for organizing the August 25th, Adopt-a-Crag day at Mt. Evans, and for the 14 others who came out and helped. It was a great day with lots of conversation and ideas shared. While there wasn’t much trash to pick up, (thanks everyone!) we did work on some of the social trails between A and B to reduce trail braiding impacts, especially in the wet areas. It’s very refreshing and encouraging for us as land managers to see people getting together and doing something proactive about the area. Working directly with us is the best way to take care of the area we all love, and keep it open for future use. Thanks to all those that didn’t show up for the cleanup, but are doing their part for the Wilderness by keeping the area free of trash, practicing Leave No Trace, and not stashing pads. Thanks again, and looking forward to more volunteer projects, we can’t do it without you! Thanks,
Patti Turecek, Recreation Planner, Clear Creek Ranger District, and Ralph Bradt, Lead Wilderness Ranger, South Platte Ranger District

^ Proof positive that land managers are not the enemy. Some folks showed their true colors over this issue on this and other forums, some anonymously and some not so much.

Hopefully, we've all been reminded that being proactive with land managers is not as difficult or as painful as it initially seems. Now, let's move forward positively.

I believe in leave no trace also. I think you should carry out what you carried in if not more.

what are you doing with all the old pads? I would be more than happy to buy some. The reason being is I attend CSU and a bunch of people from my floor just got into climbing/bouldering and with are limited income (aka students) we would give the pads good homes. We could probably by around 3 or 4 depending on the price. Maybe the profits will pay for your time or for supplies for other clean-ups/repairs.

Hope to hear from you soon
Matt

Hey Matt,

If you are looking for a new crash pad, you should check out the Horsetooth Hang on September 29th. It is a climbing festival that is held at Rotary Park. We will be giving away 6-8 crash pads from Flashed, Organic, Revolution, Black diamond, etc., plus a ton of other schwag including shoes, ropes, and a ridiculous amount of other great gear.

It only costs $25 to pre-register...which I know can be a lot for a student (I go to CSU as well), but you can also volunteer for a half day, then climb the other half ($15) or volunteer for the full day, both of which get you entered into the raffle.

Aside from the ridiculous amount of gear we give away, we also have shoe demos, a self rescue clinic by Craig Luebben, a trash clean-up, climbing competition, climbing and outdoor art displays, vendor booths, a slideshow by Paul Robinson, and free dinner for all the participants and volunteers. It is a rockin' good time and something you don't want to miss, especially if you live in the Fort.

Check out our website for more details.

www.horsetoothhang.net

Cheers,
Cam

Joey Wolfe wrote:Chris, Go up there, hike them out and take them to the Boulder sports recyclers to cash in. With all the collage kids in town those things will sell. Even if they have some teeth marks. What you do with the money is up to you, but it sounds like a real cash cow. turn a negative into ROAD TRIP MONEY

Beat you to it. I have a couple (free) pads at my house, and I don't even boulder with a pad!

Helldorado wrote: Beat you to it. I have a couple (free) pads at my house, and I don't even boulder with a pad!

I can't believe you dug back through 4 years of forums to make this post?

I disagree with the idea of stashing pads, but gloating about your retrival kinda takes away from any "good intentions" you may of had.

Helldorado wrote: Beat you to it. I have a couple (free) pads at my house, and I don't even boulder with a pad!

Since you don't boulder with pads and have several and I do boulder with pads and have none would you consider giving away one of those pads to a broke ass fellow climber?

Btw...if you don't like helping out punk ass bouldering punks have no fear...I climb trad too ;)

...and I won't stash the pad.

Sorry man, I sold most of them the other day, and frequently lend them to other broke-asses. Why even bother with gbsp's (gay butt-sex pads) anyways?

Monty wrote: I can't believe you dug back through 4 years of forums to make this post?

Yeah, I was surprised to see this one pop up again. Besides the Park is so passe now, all the cool kids have moved on.

Helldorado wrote:Why even bother with gbsp's (gay butt-sex pads) anyways?

Because I broke my right ankle playing soccer in high school and years later I still have problems with it...especially when falling off of boulders.