WARNING! Cinch and Gri Gri misuse causes accidents.

Some good additions to the thread. Daniel I don't think the issue here is with the gri-gri itself, I see the issue more on how it is (mis)used and the inexperience of the user for an advanced application.

In the sport & trad application, certainly "top-rope" lead clipping is a concern, this is a tough one to gauge for a belayer and still try and introduce a dynamic belay no matter what device is being used. I would put the fall-risk on the lead climber for this situation.

There's at least 50 lbs. weight difference between one of my climbing buddies and I, so he uses this funky Petzl carabiner with his grigri when we're at the gym or sport climbing:

It helps a lot for lowering a large climber, although it requires just a teeny bit more fussing with. It's called the "Freino" ( en.petzl.com/petzl/SportPro…).

Mark Nelson wrote:Some good additions to the thread. Daniel I don't think the issue here is with the gri-gri itself, I see the issue more on how it is (mis)used and the inexperience of the user for an advanced application. In the sport & trad application, certainly "top-rope" lead clipping is a concern, this is a tough one to gauge for a belayer and still try and introduce a dynamic belay no matter what device is being used. I would put the fall-risk on the lead climber for this situation.

True, I did deviate a bit, in Petzl's defense. I will also state that anyone who develops a device writes the best instructions on how to use it. When I bought my reverso I was a bit unclear on how to use the auto lock feature. I went to their website and found detailed videos on the matter. Follow the directions and there is a great chance that no one will get hurt! Also, know that your belayer knows how to do his job and know's how to use his tools.

And yeah, I would not want to belay a lead climber w/ a grigri just from the friction standpoint alone.

All in all the grigri is what it is and it does exactly what it is supposed to do if used correctly. It's a matter of preference I guess "you say tomato I say tomahto".

Richard Radcliffe wrote:There's at least 50 lbs. weight difference between one of my climbing buddies and I, so he uses this funky Petzl carabiner with his grigri when we're at the gym or sport climbing: It helps a lot for lowering a large climber, although it requires just a teeny bit more fussing with. It's called the "Freino" ( en.petzl.com/petzl/SportPro…).

That thing is straight out of Star Trek, gonna go read up on it now.

GRI GRI'S AND CINCHES ARE NOT HANDS FREE DEVICES!!! They never were and should never be taught that they are. Too many gym climbers have conceived this concept and it is very dangerous. They require proper belay technique and should be used by competent belayers with good technique. DO NOT give the gri gri or cinch to a beginner or bad belayer, this will teach them bad habits for life and they should be taught how to belay properlly with a standard device. If they are a poor belayers, back them up, there are many methods for back up.

-back up belayer, extra hands on the brake side while coaching
-catasrophe knots, tie a knot every 15 feet or so, kind of tedious, but very effective.
-Back up the lower, I almost always add an autoblock to my leg loop while lowering with one of these devices, it takes about 15 seconds to rig and saves my hand and gives me so much more control

skiclimber wrote:DO NOT give the gri gri or cinch to a beginner or bad belayer, this will teach them bad habits for life and they should be taught how to belay properlly with a standard device.

Beginners should actually be taught how to give a body belay. Not that I would ever want to be the recipient of such a thing (been there, done that), but one learns very quickly about the physics of belaying...

skiclimber wrote:They require proper belay technique and should be used by competent belayers with good technique. DO NOT give the gri gri or cinch to a beginner or bad belayer, this will teach them bad habits for life and they should be taught how to belay properlly with a standard device.

I'm with you 1000% on this one. I actually took a good friend of mine out on ropes for the first time yesterday. I made him use an ATC, and taught him how to rappel before I taught him to belay just so he had a complete understanding of what the braking hand is for. At the shop we bought his harness @ they tried to sell him a grigri once the words "first time" parted his lips. One thing I dislike is butting heads with a know it all sales associate at a gear shop (instant expert just add nametag), fortunately the ATC was in my buddies price range.

Saw this on supertaco and I think it helps clarify the technique we have used with success. Go easy, step lightly, stay free

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/frontoffice/Sport/static/services/GRIGRI/video/grigri_movie_en.htm