So this is what a little crow tastes like?

So that belay on the GWI below the bulge really did need replacement after all. Tony was right and I was not. Apparently those bolts were placed with a silicone gel that allowed them to be pulled with a funkness extremely easily. Mike has a little rack of them that he pulled out in just a couple of minutes each. The holes are greased with silicone and unusable. Sorry for the unnecessary drama.

At the next meeting we will be serving grilled crow with boiled bull shit. Want to come steve?
Just like Intensive Care- We neet to stop assuming things and jumping to conculsions.
New info on IC check utahclimbers.com

love
Mike the mother fuckin white
asca

Actually, you didn't propose anything in the first place. You just went up and....

OK, so this is me taking a breath and trying to relax a little.

I am really glad we have a consensus and I want to help out in any way I can.

Tony Calderone wrote: Don't mind me. I'm just organizing the crow onto one thread.

Just thought I'd use this as an example of the hypocricy. What's the difference between all the ruckus you've made about this bolt and the Snake Pit bolt that Steve posted?

Or are you going to tell me I'm making personal attacks and say that I'm disingenuous.

I don't get your hard line at all.

You know,being a guy who has a enough interest in the matter to actually have removed bolts from a climb in the past (after seeking and being granted permission from the FA-ist), I can say this- one bolt a few feet from a single placement isn't that big of a deal. Maybe not as classy as a true mixed route, but whatever.
I bet I can get gear next to at least 1 bolt on 30% of all sport climbs. It's not a huge deal to me because anybody can kibitz anybody else's bolt placements if they take the time.

I think it's cool that a few folks recognized a mistake and corrected it. I think it's cool that someone cared enough about a bad anchor to fight upstream to fix it. Both of those are commendable.

So is there like anything else constructive that anyone here has to offer?

Tony Bubb,
The point of these last few posts is that TC is harping like hell to remove the bolt in that first picture he posted yet seems somehow incognisant of the bolts he places next to cracks on his OWN routes.

tenesmus wrote:The point of these last few posts is that TC is harping like hell to remove the bolt in that first picture he posted yet seems somehow incognisant of the bolts he places next to cracks on his OWN routes.

I noticed that. I am suggesting that there may be bigger fish to fry than that one bolt and that he and others have certainly put energy into more fruitive pursuits.

Ahhhhh... summer must be here again, the bolt wars are back. Just as Spider Man 3 came out just in time for summer. Bolt wars 10 is the latest exciting installment to the Bolt Wars Series, coming out just in time for summer too. For your entertainment purposes of course, beware, this film is rated NC-17.

Im with you John, I saw enough re runs of this movie last year. John have you noticed that all the endings are the same in every episode of bolt wars?

Don't get me wrong Bill, I love this movie! Yes, the endings are the same, but maybe this summer it will end up differently, I just have to keep watching, maybe pull out my own Bosch and enter the fray now and then. I just wish there was more nudity...

Sorry to fan the flames again. Its just that I spent months trying to make peace and it really wasn't worth it. sorry for bringing it up again.

did I say I was sorry.

All these bolt wars center on some people who climb in LCC soooo much that they feel entitled to break the convention of letting the first ascentionist make the route they way he/she sees fit. I understand that if you climb some place a whole lot, you start to get a real sense of ownership/stewardship about a place. Many posts on this site center on all sorts of gripes about poorly placed bolts. I sympathize as I to have both placed cams right next to shiny new bolts on one hand, and been runout with no gear above a single bolt with deck potential wondering why the 1sts did'nt put in more bolts, on the other hand. Despite these occasional problems, this "doctrine" of first the ascentionists prerogative is all we have against outright chaos. There is a slippery slope here, no pun intended.

will nesse wrote:All these bolt wars center on some people who climb in LCC soooo much that they feel entitled to break the convention of letting the first ascentionist make the route they way he/she sees fit. I understand that if you climb some place a whole lot, you start to get a real sense of ownership/stewardship about a place. Many posts on this site center on all sorts of gripes about poorly placed bolts. I sympathize as I to have both placed cams right next to shiny new bolts on one hand, and been runout with no gear above a single bolt with deck potential wondering why the 1sts did'nt put in more bolts, on the other hand. Despite these occasional problems, this "doctrine" of first the ascentionists prerogative is all we have against outright chaos. There is a slippery slope here, no pun intended.

Well said, Will. Your comments are intelligent and insightful - especially regarding the first ascentionist's prerogative as an anchor against chaos. I hope that the locals will see the value in your statement.

Hey, if folks are going to post up pics (especially mine) here's a few more fun ones...

The now bolted Mantle Variation of Schoolroom:

Bolt right off the trail in the Castle on the Sharks Fin protecting apparently an old boulder problem. Please note the hand crack to the left, which also has a horizontal finger crack inside it. Bet I could place 7 different size cams in this rig, and, only a couple feet away from the bolt...

Close up of the previous bolt. You can see that whoever placed the bolt, orginally blew the first bolt placement and chopped the stud off, then redrilled a whopping 1/4" away from the first bolt, apparently in an effort to hide the remnant stud under the bolt hanger. Ugh.

Same formation, two bolts straddling a crack.

Yeee haaaa...

brianinslc,

is that really CALDERONE on that bolt? Really?

WOW.

Tony Calderone! did you bolt the mantle variation?

are you adding bolts near cracks in Idaho?

i dont want to rush to any judgements. speak up and clear the ar, unless you like the obscurants.....

This all just makes me sad. Really, someone with so much ability to do good throwing his weight around so we'll agree with him... yet he's doing the opposite himself.

So much good work and good will thrown away by these actions. Is it that you (TC) are harping on CP to make amends for other actions?

I'm at a complete loss

I also agree with Will. That is the beauty of climbing something first, you make the choices and tell everyone else to F-off if they don't agree with you. The slippery slope obviously says that if LCC turns into the City of Rocks, people aren't going to let the FA do whatever he/she wants. The reality is that FA or not, the locals are going to turn to vigilante justice if they deem it necessary.

And that is going to piss me off, because I have been scoping this killer line of 5.5 climbing where I am going to place bolts every 4 feet...

tony,
it was a simple question. i gather the answer to the mantle variation is no, you did not place those bolts.

secondly, your arrogant answer suggests that you think you may have led it first? you are sadly mistaken. that thing was led back in the late 70's. i led it in the early 80's.

how about the bolts in the city?

tc, do everyone a favor and leave the rock alone....

JJG:"And that is going to piss me off, because I have been scoping this killer line of 5.5 climbing where I am going to place bolts every 4 feet... " How'd you know about that? BS and JS already got to the line I was thinking about (at least for the most part)...ground-up and all...the bolts are definitely not 4ft apart...but who knows? maybe i can persuade them into my vision of an easy, well-protected, so-so slab, TRADE route, that pretty much only needs draws...as an ACCESS climb to the Bells?
sounds good huh?
Anyhoo...i am currently dodging salt-rock cross-bow wielding loyal Texans down here in Dallas. In order to go to the "closest" worthy crag...we have to sneak in through back roads (about 1 hour's worth), park really far away, stealth and jump over barbed wire, and then climb in the shadows quietly...all for a handful of worthy routes that are only 40 ft. tall (although 20 ft. overhanging)no kidding! the owner of the land literally shoots first then calls the cops!

so...my new perspective on the whole LCC Bolt Wars...
no problems...i'll just keep climbing...
i get back wed. afternoon...anyone want to go climbing?

"that thing was led back in the late 70's. i led it in the early 80's."

I'm guessing more like the 60's. It got done on a regular basis all through the 70's.