Recent Alien Failure - Photos....

Not sure what to believe, but the photos are scary!

mountainproject.com/v/color…

Scary for sure!

Scarier still is that CCH seems to deny any responsibility and says it was loaded over an edge.. BS

looks to be a fairly new cam with the stem not inserted enough into the head to hold a bagel let alone a falling climber

At first I thought this post read "Recent Allen Failure-Photo's" and got gripped at the thought of one of my more recent mis- adventures being documented somehow.

Serously though those are frightening photos. Gear doing that sort of thing makes one pause for sure.

Bump this with even more news.. after looking on their website it seems that CCH only tensile tests their cables.. not(apparently) assembled cams. which would not catch any of the failures they have had, including the recalled cams from last year.
aliencamsbycch.com/alien_ne…

Jake D. wrote:Bump this with even more news.. after looking on their website it seems that CCH only tensile tests their cables.. not(apparently) assembled cams. which would not catch any of the failures they have had, including the recalled cams from last year. ...

Jake, the CCH site does not say they only test the cable.

They also have posted a notice that neither they nor a lab has received the failed unit (as of 04-27-07), only the same pictures we all have seen which are inconclusive.

It says nothing about testing the cam after it has been assembled.

the "tensile testing" stamp to which everyone thought was done after pull testing the cam is actually put there after they have tested the cable. Again none of the failures have been of a cable breaking.. but more of the cam head not being attached properly to cable.

holy ramshackle shop!

I don't know about anyone else...but piece of mind goes a long ways with climbing gear...never heard of any other cam blowing up like these, EVER...bit sketchy if you ask me....used to love aliens, though I never took a big whip on any...now I am not so sure about them. YMMV.

Jake D. wrote:It says nothing about testing the cam after it has been assembled. the "tensile testing" stamp to which everyone thought was done after pull testing the cam is actually put there after they have tested the cable. Again none of the failures have been of a cable breaking.. but more of the cam head not being attached properly to cable.

From how the following reads, I believe they are stating they do perform tests after the brazing:

CCH is currently working on implementing an ISO 9000 quality management system. To prevent this specific issue we are pull testing every brazed cable to the specified strength rating. You can verify that the new CCH Alien cams manufactured after January 2006 have completed cable pull testing by locating an "L", "U" or "N" punch on the head of the cam. We have also implemented new jig testing to verify that Alien cams meet specified tolerances.

Though, as someone had pointed out to me, unless a rapid enough test is performed, you still get a reading that is industry acceptable though it does not reflect the true impact of a falling climber.

Ahh i see. the pictures don't show it very well but i guess i could see how they'd braze it first and then put it into the tester. They should say they are testing the braze.. not the cable.

Yes, I understand that. But I think they were addressing the issue of having a cable break well below a strength rating, which I find difficult to believe a cable would do that if it were in good condition.

I took some cams to CCH to have cables replaced. Each (entire) unit was pull tested using a jig, not the cable tester pictured.

Nate do you know how many lbs they pulled them to? Just wondering because a friend might make a jig and i'd probably use it to test mine

Never had a TCU fail, Camalot fail or a WC Friend fail. Never even heard of a story about the latter two failing. It would be real difficult to convince me that there are not some serious issues with this manufacturer. It's too bad.

ATS wrote:Never had a TCU fail, Camalot fail or a WC Friend fail. Never even heard of a story about the latter two failing.

"Knocking on wood" for you and the rest of the climbing community as we speak...

i'm gonna keep pluggin aliens without a second thought.
p.s. if anyone is feeling squirmy about theirs let me know and i'll take them off your hands.

I went up there yesterday and had 8 post-recall cams tested, Black through Orange. They didn't flinch when I asked to pull them harder than required. All 8 were pulled at 2000 # which was the highest the meter would go and they were fine.

I learned also that the process used when building cams is to braze a head on each end of a 2 foot cable, pull using both heads, then cut the cable in half to make 2 cams.

David Pneuman wrote:I learned also that the process used when building cams is to braze a head on each end of a 2 foot cable, pull using both heads, then cut the cable in half to make 2 cams.

David -- thank's for the info -- good to understand. That better explains the pictures on their site... wonder why they don't just explain it on the site.

Did they say or imply if that was the only testing they do to new cams, or if they also do a pull test of the entire cam before selling it? I would suspect so, if they're stamping the swage. Otherwise, they would not test the swage, lobes, assembly, etc.

Avery Nelson wrote: Did they say or imply if that was the only testing they do to new cams, or if they also do a pull test of the entire cam before selling it?

Jared, to clarify -- I am asking if they also do the full-cam test when they manufacture new cams, or just the cable pull test.

To clarify a little further. The test on an assembled cam is to support the 'head' ( Where the cable is brazed into ) and pull on the thumb loop which pull tests the braze, cable and ferrule connection.

For the record, after seeing my cams gladly pulled to 2000#, which is above what a fall factor 2 for my weight would be, I'll continue to use them.

I'll also throw out a lesson I came to know well when in a Marketing department of a large corporation;

If FUD : Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, are making you think about spending large sums of money, it is best to wait a while and spend that time doing some research of actual facts, not emotions or fallacies.

Just for extra information for people who haven't climbed Souders Crack. I top-roped Souders this weekend and it is pretty much vertical, not overhanging, and the crack is straight up and down maybe leaning to the right a little at the top where it curves (but you're probably not going to fit an alien in here and you certainly shouldn't deck from here if something failed). The flake that you're placing behind is certainly pretty thin in spots (the crack is behind a right-facing flake). I could see how if someone fell they could swing from right to left and bend the cable somewhat over the flakes edge (which is not sharp, it's well rounded in most places). But there are no placements that I saw where a cable would be significantly bent over an edge........