racking?

I know it has been discussed like a million times but I am curious. how do you rack and how hard do you lead? I think that my approach could be limiting me, and I am looking for some insight to improve my skills.

I carry 2 sets of nuts (even RPs), a mix of 5,6,7,8 BD hexes, pink and blue tri cams, double set of cams from blue Aliens to #3 blue Camalot (singles of 3.5, 4, 5, and 6), black alien along with 2 blue, 2 red and 1 gold Trango sliding nuts, yellow/red offset Aliens and green/yellow offset Aliens as well.

Obviously this is a lot of crap to haul but I constantly find myself re-assuring myself that I might need this piece somewhere even if I can't see it. To complicate things more I carry it all on one gear sling, I keep cams 2 to a biner like sizes together and nuts assorted by size on 4 biners, this is a lot of congestion though.

I have been thinking lately that I waste a lot of energy getting a piece in due to the fact that I must dig extensively to find something unless I planned ahead and kept it in clear view or used it lately. I could probably save energy by leaving anything that I obviously don't need and doubles that I won't need of my big and really small cams along with the really big cams. that should get rid of some clutter and weight but then I had another thought.....

What if I racked gear like I was sport climbing? you know equal amounts (1 set of nuts and cams per side) on either side (racked on the harness instead of a sling) and most commonly used pieces up front, plan gear for a sequence etc. Oh and leave what I won't need so I don't carry extra weight.

I have climbed up to 5.9+ trad routes but have led up to 5.11a sport and I know I can lead hard trad but part of it is the fumbling with gear and more importantly the digging through the rack and weight of the rack have gotten to me. I have taken up light clean aid to get better with the placements but this has accumulated more gear and weight to the rack thus being counter productive on free ascents where I carry everything under the sun. It has helped speed up the gear placements, though I still find my cams constantly in my hand (unless they obviously won't work).

Thanks for the advice.

One thing that I was taught was find a racking system, and stick to it. This breeds familiarity. Now...I am no hard man, 9/10's are for normal for me, but I do find that knowing exactly where the piece I want is, everytime...helps a lot.

My racking system is like this.

I rack on the harness...I have found a gear sling swinging around sucks (for me) but then again most of the gear routes I lead are only vertical to slabby...so it just hangs in my way.

Back left loop: extendable draws
front left. Passive gear. front to back ..one beaner pink red tricam, one Nuts..from small to big
Front right Cams...from small to big, each on it's own over a .4 (blue/black alien, and yellow/blue TCU each share a beaner).
back right loop; sporty/extendable Draws...and if I need to drag the elvis (#4 camalot or bigger) it goes back here.
A few over the over the shoulders...well, over the shoulder.

There is a certain beauy to not carrying it all. I find that a standard rack seems to be a one of stoppers, .4 up to a 3 inch cam. if the route calls for RP's bring 'em...if it calls for big gear..bring it. But don't feel like everytime you leave the ground you need to carry every single piece of gear you own, you will only limit yourself. And besides most of the gear routes you are climbing...were probably climbed with all passive gear first anyway. Hope this helps...I have been religious on racking for every pitch this way for 15 years...it has served me well.

Besides....we have all watched someone panicking looking for that red camalot or whatever...why not put it in the same spot everytime?

Some once told me that

"If you end the pitch and you have used 75% of your gear you have brought the right amount of gear up the climb."

You have a lot of gear and for you to use that much you would be aid climbing the trad route. :)

I'm afraid I'm guilty of taking too much also. But if I think before I climb what am I just not going to use and leave it behind that helps. You can always cut the pitch short if you have to.

Have fun

I recently saw a picture of a guy in climbing magazine who was placing a cam while it was still attached to his gear sling. What do you all think about this? At first it seemed like a great idea, no chance of dropping your piece, if it's not the right size quick and easy to grab a different size, no need to reattach it. On the flip side it seems like this could be a pain in the ass if you can't reach the placement, fall in the process of placing it, potential choking, etc...

Mike McKinnon and I have simalar racks. I bring a pink and red tricams and a #9 hex as a hammer for my nut tool sometimes. I have a #4 camalot so I will bring that too. I will always set the #4 and get it off my waist early in the pitch for my second to carry it.

Michael McKinnon wrote:I rack all on my harness and never use a gear sling unless I know I am going ot need it (chimney, offwidth). One, I think you are carrying way too much gear. My standard rack is a set of nuts. All on one biner without the notch so they dont get stuck. A set of BD cams (.5 -3) with doubles 1 and 2. And the black - yellow aliens. I will bring small TCUs as well if I think I need them. The gear goes on the right and left front loops and I carry all my slings on the back 2 loops. I usually climb wiht 12 extendable runners. In general, a #3 camalot is the biggest you will need on most routes in Eldo and Lumpy. I dont carry anything bigger unless I know the route calls for it (Grand Giraffe). Each piece of gear is on its own biner so if I run out of draws I can clip directly to the piece. Also this helps for fast placements that are all in a line when a draw might not be needed.

I have always hated to have too much gear on my harness, it always feels like my pants are being pulled down and I am constantly tugging at my harness to pull it up.

Thought 1: Jason, you are definitely carrying too much gear in one place. You are pretty much carrying too much gear even if you spread it around. Oddly, because you have so many options for placements and different pieces of gear, the many choices can slow you down. You will be amazed at how small of a rack that you actually need and what you can get away with.

Thought 2: I know they have been around for like 10 years, but it took a sale at REI for me to finally get one, and dang is my life happier. I am talking about the Metolius Gear sling with the four sewn loops. I always thought that they were a waste and that I wouldn't be able to slide all of my gear to my backside... I was wrong. It has made my leading that much cleaner and easier. All of the biners don't slam and slide together, which make searching for the right one with the right cam a pain in the ass. I rack just like the Real Angry does, and now I know what is always going to be on each loop and there are only 4 or 5 biners to choose from... highly recommended.

Thought 3: Has been said, but it is like the golden rule... do the same thing each and every time when you are racking.

Thought 4: I have noticed over the years that now when I see I placement possibility I see it in terms of a red camalot, or a yellow camalot, or a green alien, etc. Climbing with the same gear and getting used to a company's color coding certainly helps. I have noticed what a pain it is when I use my friends racks who have brand new metolius cams or something. They are pretty and fun to use, but I am swearing to myself because I can see that the crack is a "red camalot" but I don't have one and now need to try to find an equivalent which takes time and usually I end up trying two or more times to find the right equivalent.

Anyway, regards.

I second the suggestions to cut down on duplicate gear and leave behind the big stuff unless you're sure you're going to need it.

Several more ideas:

• If you're carrying a lot of gear, consider using a gear sling like the Black Diamond Zodiac, the Metolius Big Wall, or the Metolius Big Wall Multi-Loop, which lets you have gear on both sides and evenly distribute the weight. This doesn't let you shift gear from one side to the other for offwidths, but neither does racking on your harness; bring a single-shoulder gear sling for those routes.
• If you're doing a multi-pitch route and swinging leads with your partner, consider having each person bring their own gear sling. The second can re-rack while cleaning, and each person gets to lead with the gear arranged the way they like it.
• Rack gear on biners with a smooth gate to eliminate snags, especially for wired nuts. Consider the Wild Country Helium or the DMM Shield for racking your gear.
• Lighten up your trad runners. Trango Superfly biners and Mammut 24" x 8mm Dyneema runners are a great combo.
• Lighten up your locking carabiners. Trango Superfly Screwgates are very light and very strong.

thanks for the replies, it has given me some insight...
I know that I carry too much gear, it is like a curse having a gear addiction. I guess I picked this problem up when I started playing with aid, however I find it convenient to have anything you might need that you own(except hooks obviously). but I can tell you I hardly ever use 75% of my rack, I could probably cut down but I would still be a bit heavy I think.

I really like using my green aliens through my #2 Camalot very commonly and I think I will always carry doubles in these sizes. even a #3 Camalot is a common piece for me but doubles? I could probably drop the really small and really large cams unless otherwise noted by the guide book, and just carry some nuts for small cam replacement. I think I will also keep my hexes and two tri cams for emergency pieces(for a belay anchor) or for those rare occasions that they might work better then anything else.

I guess the main reason I over rack is out of fear, I am always worried I won't have what I need to construct a good anchor under a lot of different conditions( especially on multi-pitch routes [maybe I'm a wuss but I get a bit burned out leading all of the pitches for my gumby newbie partners/friends]).

I also like the idea of keeping the gear on separate loops vs. one sling(less congestion) I have always tried to keep my gear in a certain order but it's hard when there is so much clutter.

" also like the idea of keeping the gear on separate loops vs. one sling(less congestion) I have always tried to keep my gear in a certain order but it's hard when there is so much clutter."

When doing multi-pitch or very long pitches I've seen some guys rack one cam on a biner and then attatch the second of the same size (with its own biner)to the first biner. For instance, if you have a .75cam on a biner on your harness and want a second - just clip the second to the biner of the first. When you go to place it just unclip the lower one. The same for draws. With trad I almost always double up draws on my back loops. But I love 70m pitches.

If you're sometimes reaching for the wrong sized cam its also a good idea to put two sizes on the same biner. Smaller and medium sizes are sometimes harder to read - especially on unfamiliar rock so its more practical. I'll sometimes have a second .75 and a .5 camalot on one biner. It sometimes keeps the "oops I grabbed too big" reflex at bay.

One more thing: With nuts I have one set of BD stoppers on one biner and one set of HB aluminum offsets on another and tricams/biggest few nuts on a third. If things are really small I'll throw on some RP's(HB brassies) on another biner. But realistically, how often are you going to need these on easier terrain? On many routes I just carry the one set of HB aluminums and it seems fine.

I know these questions get asked from time to time on rc.com, but its still kinda fun to hear what other guys do. I'm a geek.

Well I went and climbed lovers leap 5.7 today and I tried a new method of racking along with leaving about 10-15 pounds of big cams and small cams at home. I was pretty happy, no gear swinging in my way all the time was nice. I racked 2 cams per biner still but 2 different sizes, split my 2 sets of nuts in half, big on 1 biner and small on the other. I racked smallest to largest starting with nuts and working to my largest cams in the back(basically a single rack per side on the harness with draws on a sling around my shoulder except the long ones which were on the back of my harness).I still noticed that I was only using about 20-30% of my rack the whole pitch(usually 30-40 meters). then again I was climbing a route that was way easy for me, and I ran it out atleast 10 -30 feet between pieces(the rock was a little manky in spots too which made me place less).

I plan to try to slim it down a little but am not 100% sure how yet. I will keep experimenting till it works like a charm. thanks again.

Necro post I know but.......

Me, I hate gear slings. Hate them. They always get in the way for me, no matter the style or route. Straight on the harness for me.

I used to carry a double rack like you. Still do for cams #1, 2, 3, 4 for most routes (those neing metolious cam sizes, so .5-1 camalots). If I'm climbing an area that readily accepts nuts, I'll take a double set, split on 3 spirit biners so they dont snag. If I only take one set of nuts, it gets split on 2 spirit biners (yes, I have 5 sets total, so I never have to change them). My cams always go 2 to a biner, with them being staggered in sizes (so a camalot .5 and a .75, or a 1 and a #2 being on the same biner.

I'm right handed so rack from smallest to largest going from my front right to back right. Nuts->cams->2 long locker slings on my right side, and short to long runners to my belay device on my left side. I can rack 3 sets of nuts, 3 sets of cams and not have problems pulling as I clip all my biners to me gate facing out. Everyone always looks at me funny, but I've never had to fight with a gear loop getting stuck on a biner that's crowded. It just makes sense to me that way as I can drop the biner out because it's easier to push the biner off my gearrung than to try and pull it off.

That said, getting familiar and comfortable using a smaller rack will pay off in most (read: not all) cases, and will help you climb a bit harder as you have less crap in your way and less weight.

Oh, and depending on route length I average between 10 (plus 2 lockers for anchor) on runners all the way up to 30 runners for LONG pitches, with an average of 15 or so (plus 2 lockers).

Just me and my way of doing things, but I climb 5.12A sport, and 5.11+ trad, rope soloing 5.10+ on clove hitches. If your new system works for ya, great. And the more you use any system, the easier it will become.

I got the color coded BD neutrinos for all my camalots. That helps a lot, because I never actually have to look at the cam, I just look at the top of the biner (I use a metolius 4 loop gear sling, btw). The number of cams I take varies. The full set up includes doubles from .5-#2. Set of nuts with doubles in the mid ranges. On alpine routes I'll generally take only singles of everything, and pare it down as much as possible. I rely pretty heavily on nuts in the alpine setting, unless I know it's going to be a lot of hard climbing, like a wall. Then the full rack comes out. Oh...I don't know if it matters, but ice screws go on my harness.

What's your preference regarding the direction of biner gates when racking? Do you rack them with the gate towards your body or away from your body?

Migrating from sport climbing to trad last year, I have always racked with the gates away from my body using a harness with rigid gear loops. Now that I have a new harness (BD Chaos) with "floppy" (for lack of a real term) gear loops, I'm wondering if racking with gates away from my body will make it difficult getting gear on and off the harness.

I'm away with the gate hinge low

drop the hexes, especially 2 sets of stoppers.

I always rack each cam with its own biner, and clip the size-double to the top biner. can someone explain to me how you pull off putting two cams on one biner to rack? Are you placing one and then leaving it unclipped in the rock while you rerack the remaining cam? Seems tedious I guess.

MM

with the 2 cams to a biner - the cam is placed, the other cam takes the biner and is re-racked, then you take a draw and clip the placed cam through to the rope.

I've gotten away from that and just gone with 1 cam to a biner. Note also, that if you have a set of nuts, you basically do the same re-racking & use a draw anyway.

What to rack?: Gear selection is route dependant... ALWAYS on a double gear sling... gear on one side, draws and extra biners on the other (once again, route dependant).

How to rack biners: It's always been my preference to rack gate in, open end up. Just seems faster to me.

John

Call me crazy, but I go 4 cams to a biner. This means I never have to go back to the harness if I miss the size and I have a maximum of 4 biners on any gear loop. I love the de-clutter factor. I also now stack draws- one on the harness, two hanging off it. Again, de-clutter.
I've seen too many people spend too much energy sorting through their gear loops or forcing too many biners on the loop.

I tied on an additional gear loop in the back for anything I won't need until I reach the belay.

I definitely see the benefit of separate cams if you can easily predict the crack size or can clip the cam right to the rope.

I'm mainly an Eastern climber whereas most on this site are Westerners, so cracks are not nearly as predictable out here.

Gate in. Lift off.

Adam Catalano wrote:I tied on an additional gear loop in the back for anything I won't need until I reach the belay.

I've been thinking of doing the same. Could come in handy when you're lugging a water bottle or extra pair of shoes for those long walk-offs. Not to mention, those cordelettes can be bulky. Putting in the back keeps it out of the way of the gear you need during the climb.

I have only been climbing a couple years, so I keep changing a bit, but I usually like to clip most gear to my harness with a few cams on a sling (sometimes - route dependent). I don't always put it in the same place, I try to figure which side will be easier to pull from and what sizes I will most likely need. Other stuff goes on the other side. One biner per cam.

For slings I throw a few single biner slings over my shoulder and rack a few doubled trad draws on my harness (mostly for passive gear). All my gear biners are the same, so it is easy to tell gear from slings on my harness.

scoTt