Accident Eldorado Canyon

slight offshoot; by design, the Cinch is much harder to hold the cam in the open position than the groggy

Tony, I get your point in dealing with the apprehension with belayers using the gri-gri. But, your latest post takes me back to my original inquiry about "gri-gri habits".

Both examples you gave I have not seen as a habit of a person using a gri-gri and then belaying a lead climber with a conventional device. The first example you gave deals with a bad brake hand position; but, was the brake hand was still on the rope, or was she trying to manipulate the cam to feed you slack? This example is an important one, if you could offer more insight into what the situation was that led to the brake hand actually locking the rope off over the cam, this would make more sense to me.

It seems to me, if the belayer was feeding rope between the guide hand and brake hand in the manner in which is described by the product recommendations this should not have happened. What I see in the recommendations is that a belayer basically takes the brake hand off and manipulates the cam using the ring & pinkie fingers and the thumb & index fingers become a secondary guide keeping the rope from twisting as you pull rope through with the main guide hand. To then lock off, the brake hand is to slide back off the cam and holds the rope in a lateral position away from the cam. So how was your belayer able to lock off over the cam?

The second example deals with someone that either just didn't give a f*ck, or didn't fully comprehend or understand the situation of taking you off belay. This could have happened if the person was using any device.

What I have seen as a habit of gri-gri use from someone that then goes into using a conventional device is the inability to understand brake position and how to be dynamic. They become too complacent about having a cam take over, or respond to a fall by going to manipulate a cam that is not present with the conventional device; thereby, taking the brake grip off. In a lead fall, these are the habits I see that could cause the belayer to lose control of the rope.

A good question to ask at this point is how then does a person offer a dynamic property during a lead fall if they go to lock off? With a gri-gri, what I have done is to slide my brake hand back on the rope and bring my guide to work the cam when the leader pitches off. This takes practice & I think should be done in a gym with the floor padding using short falls not very far off the deck. The object of this is to work on softening the catch but not prevent the cam from eventually locking and keeping a brake hand on. By working my hands in this fashion, they remain independent as they would with a conventional device. (Tony, I'm still having trouble with this method going over it in my head, I think I need to work with a couple of friends to repost exactly how I do this using two hands; but I think I'm explaining the method correctly. Using just the brake hand to manipulate the cam for a dynamic belay, might be effective, but I'm not envisioning how this is a safe method, because the brake hand comes off the rope and the rope moves freely through the device.)

In working with a conventional device, the hands should already in an independent position if working with the Slip, Slap, & Slide method. This method, usually taught in the top rope application, carries over to a lead belay application almost seamlessly. Though the rope moves in an opposite direction as to a top rope belay, the belayer is already working their hands and rope strands independently so as to be dynamic with the rope & catch a fall.

The trouble I think we are discussing is having a person belay that doesn't understand how each hand is supposed to react in a lead fall and, in working with a gri-gri during lead climbing & then to a fall catch is a more complicated application than a conventional device; and since it's more complicated, the gri-gri setup lends itself to a climber being dropped. That is what I think is meant by a "gri-gri habit". Even though the device works well, it's the aptitude of the belayer taking these mechanical properties for granted without realizing what is necessary for a good brake position.

The other issue we have been talking about, in hearing you explain the relationship with a new partner, it seems that you do go through some insight on the deck. But, you are right; once you start climbing, things change, and a climber just won't feel comfortable until partners get some experience between them. The partners could be totally proficient with safe belay technique, but the apprehension of putting yourself in a position to take a fall with someone you don't really know too well is unsettling.

Sorry to detract from the gri-gris suck/nuh-uh debate, but does anybody know what actually happened? I saw SAR guys wrapping up late in the day up and left from the upper pitches of the bulge and wondered what route the climber was actually evac'd from.

As a member of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group, I hope I can clear up some of the confusion that exists about this accident.

The climbing party was on Pilgrim (5.10d), and was near the top of the
pitch. A lead fall resulted in a very long fall (70-100 ft.). The
belayer had difficulty stopping the leader, for reasons that haven't been clarified yet. As he stated in the Camera article, the belayer suffered burns to his hands from trying to stop the fall. Some nearby climbers assisted in getting the leader to the ground (the second rope that some above have descibed) before rescuers arrrived. The leader was evacuated by rescuers to an ambulance and taken to the hospital. The belayer was not transported.

More detail can't be released at this time. But, we hope to be able to post a full accident report on our website soon ( rockymountainrescue.org/ ), and will post a notice of
it on this thread.

• *edited to try to make the web link work**

Thanks Rich!!

See, that's what happens when one tries to write on a subject they know nothing about!! Typical media always confusing people ;-)

Thanks, Rich. As Tom had stated earlier, an incident like this is really intimidating to see such a response. A quick review of your website indicates that your group will not be sending any type of an charge or invoice for such a response to the climbers (with possible exception to ambulatory/helicopter transport services).

Can you enlighten on how your group works in Boulder/Eldo and what you do for the climbers there?

Also, your link has an added ")" in the URL making the jump not work. (John fixed -- thanks!!)

Link is working.

There’s no short answer, but I’ll try to summarize.

You are correct that we don’t bill for our services. As it says on the “About RMRG” page ( rockymountainrescue.org/htm… ) we are composed entirely of volunteers and funded by State and local government and charitable donations. We respond to about 130 calls a year, of which about 80 turn into field missions like the one the other day in Eldo. The other 50 are things like searches for someone who walks out at a trailhead 5 minutes after a friend became concerned and called for help. We get by on a budget of about $50,000 a year. About $30k of that comes from the County, another $5k from the City of Boulder, and the rest from private donations.

Pridemark Paramedics ( pridemark-paramedics.com/ ), the ambulance company we usually respond with, does bill people for transport. They are a private company that doesn’t receive government funding. Likewise for any helicopter transport.

Trying to answer how we work is a difficult one because every mission is different. Any large scale emergency response (like a mountain rescue) involves many agencies. We are the mountain rescue team for Boulder County, but most calls will also involve the Sheriff’s office, the local fire department, an ambulance, and perhaps park rangers, and other emergency response teams such as Front Range Rescue Dogs (search dogs) or Boulder Emergency Squad (swiftwater rescue, and many other things). On very large missions we might call neighboring mountain rescue teams (such as Alpine Rescue Team in Evergreen [ alpinerescueteam.org/ ], or Larimer Co. SAR [ larimercountysar.org/ ]) to come help us out, and we might also respond to their district if they need help.

The “About RMRG” page linked above, and the FAQ page (http:/www.rockymountainrescue.org/html/faq.html ) provide a lot more information about us for people who are interested. I think this statement from one of those pages sums it up well: “RMRG specializes in search and rescue on mountainous terrain or in extreme weather where other rescue units are ineffective. With its highly specialized equipment and training, RMRG can safely evacuate injured hikers and climbers from high angle cliff faces and steep, loose talus slopes and carry out searches for overdue hikers and downed aircraft. As dramatic as many of the Group's missions seem, much of the work performed by RMRG is the laborious task of carrying injured people safely and smoothly over rough terrain to accessible trail heads.” We are accredited by the Rocky Mountain Region of the Mountain Rescue Association in avalanche, winter technical rescue, low angle and high angle evacuations, and wilderness search. In addition, we investigate accidents and provide safety education to interested organizations.

As I said, we are a group of volunteers. We are always recruiting active and motivated climbers/mountaineers that are interested in training to become a member (more info here: rockymountainrescue.org/htm… ).

• edited to add links*