Dark Shadows, to summit or not to summit?

I'm coming out in May for my 2nd trip to Red Rock and I was going to do 'Dark Shadows' with my girlfriend.. can anybody tell me if its worth it to continue up to the summit of Mescalito, or should I call it quits after the first 4? Any info about the descent would help a lot too, thanks!

I think it's definitely worth it, the climbing above is fun and it's always nice to summit something. My memory of the descent is terrible though, I can't help you with that. I would suggest getting some good info though, I remember thrashing down the wrong gully for awhile until it cliffed out and we had to backtrack. I also remember being so thirsty that I drank from some fetid pool of water. The fact that I'm suggesting it to you must mean it wasn't that bad though! That or I have a bad memory.

the upper pitches of dark shadows are totally worthwhile; i thought the last pitch of 5.8 - a pretty face to an improbable roof - was the best on the entire route. the climbing is moderate (5.6 - 5.8) the entire way. you're probably best off staying roped up above where the route "officially" ends for ~ 2 pitches of 5.0 - 5.6 to the true summit.

check out my comment, and a few that follow RE: "dark shadows to the top," here - mountainproject.com/v/nevad…

the descent wasn't too bad, but it did take my partner and i about as long as the climb. totally worth it, however. the rappels i describe were all made comfortably with a 70m rope - a single 60 would be fine.

If you like adventure, are fairly good at route finding (won't find much chalk past the main DS pitches), have no fear of encountering questionable rock, can build anchors, have all day, and don't mind possibly being benighted if you are unfamiliar with finding the Cat In The Hat descent off the Mescalito, then go for it! : )

The summit pitches, the summit itself, and the descent were all interesting to me. Then again, I'm biased towards the full topout and walkoff adventure.

I went to the summit on Dark Shadows;.....it is many more pitches of 5.6-5.8 climbing.....and then we traversed to the right (up canyon) for a long way, and did many rappels off;......do 4 pitches and it's very casual;.....grade II or easy III.......go to the summit;...it's a long, long full day grade IV style climb, and you best be fast, efficient, strong, and carry a head-lamp and an extra pack of smokes too...........just depends on what type of experience you wish to have.......they are completely different from each other.....If it's a casual "date" climb with your sweetie;....go for the 4 pitches, rap off , take a shower at the hotel, slam some brews, and hit the casinos.....(You can double your paycheck with no problem at all.....)

GO TO THE SUMMIT >>>>>>>>>

Totally worth it......get the beta, it's not too difficult to find the descent......

I've been to the top I think 3 times and each is great and unique....

I'm pretty sure my profile pic is somewhere on pitch 5 or 6 of Dark Shadows. We got a bit lost after pitch 5, it is difficult to find the route. On the way down it was a guess, walked way to the right before bailing down, ended up doing one of the scariest raps of my life, off a tiny chock stone, if you could call it that, horizontal out over this 1.5 foot wide dark chasm that would have been really easy to slip and pendulum into. Have fun, take advice of others posting here.

Definitely go to the top and leave yourself some daylight to find the way down. The CITH descent isn't too bad and can be done with one 70m.

Wow, thanks everybody for all the input! Sounds like its worth it to summit. I'll be sure to start early and bring about 1,000 gallons of water. I'd love to do the Cat in the Hat rapps down, but I haven't been on that route either. Maybe I'll just play it by ear; if I could get some beta from another party on top I'll rapp CITH, otherwise do the walkoff. Anybody have any beta on the downclimb to CITH?

Andrew Bradberry wrote:.....I'll be sure to start early and bring about 1,000 gallons of water. I'd love to do the Cat in the Hat raps down, but I haven't been on that route either. Maybe I'll just play it by ear; if I could get some beta from another party on top I'll rap CIT, otherwise do the walkoff. Anybody have any beta on the downclimb to CITH?

Good idea to start early; mainly to allow yourself daylight to descend off the Mescalito (and climbing in May will give you more daylight hours, which is good). The downclimb off the summit to the start of the CITH raps involves quite a bit of 3rd, 4th, and easy short fifth class moves; you may just end up following the path of least resistance, as it's somewhat maze-like at times. Study the location/beta for The Cat In The Hat raps, and other options off the Mescalito before you head out. Some beta can be found from others on this site under DS, and CITH, and check out Red Rock Odyssey by Larry DeAngelo which has good beta in it, and Super-Topo may have some beta for the descent off the Mescalito too. Bring a few copies of different options/beta on the descent if it's your first time summiting the Mescalito, and especially if you are new to Red Rock climbing, and it's adventurous, typical, not-so-straightforward descents. Don't forget your headlamps for the longish descent. Don't depend on seeing others on the summit of Mescalito; not too many climbers summit, but if you are climbing on a weekend, on a bluebird day, you'll probably bump into some climbers on the raps of CITH (hopefully they will know what they are doing; some on CITH don't as it's a classic "easy" trad route in Red Rock that many beginners partake in).

Have fun on your adventure!

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't leave anything at the base of DS. Bring your approach shoes, and carry up your belongings on the climb if you can, and do bring plenty of water. Your descent back to your car will be shorter if you don't have to retrieve your stuff back at the DS base, and an FYI- many day hikers, and wandering city folk easily hike to the base of DS, and your stuff might not be safe to leave it there out of sight, all day, these days. Hell, I've even discovered a couple of ratty couch pillows, and mats from what looked like a homeless person's encampment up creek past DS this year; what's RR coming to?

EDIT: Damn, one more thing! Be sure, and get a free "late exit pass": It's just an easy phone call. It'll prevent an expensive ticket if in the loop after hours (I believe it's $150 fine).

• Make sure you call while you're still in town before Charleston Blvd, and the 215 by the Red Rock Casino (the last spot you can get good cell reception on your way to RR).

Here's the info. I copied, and pasted from the main RR info homepage on MP:

• **** LATE EXIT PASSES *****

It is easy to be late returning to your car, and the tickets are EXPENSIVE. The BLM has a "Late Exit" system in place to allow climbers extra time before they must exit the scenic loop road. Full details are on the BLM recording at 702-515-5050. Here's what to do:

Call the LATE EXIT RECORDING at 702-515-5050.

You can call up to seven days prior to your climb. If you can get a cell phone signal (but don't count on this), you can call as late as 4:00 p.m. on the day of your climb. Be prepared to recite the following information to the answering machine:

1. Your name and address
2. Vehicle license number and description
3. Type of pass (late exit or overnight)
4. Intended date of climb
5. Route name
6. Parking area
7. Your phone number

ALL information must be left or NO PERMIT WILL BE ISSUED!

All climbers should take advantage of this excellent resource. Any number of unexpected things can cause you to run late on a climb. Don't let your trip get ruined with an expensive, but avoidable, parking ticket

An example of summiting the Mescalito the first time around -I took this photo of Jonny when I summited the Mescalito for the first time (we climbed Cookie Monster that day, connecting to the final pitch of CITH) We did some exposed scrambling to get to the summit of the Mescalito as seen in picture. The second time around summiting Mescalito from DS, and descending the Mescalito for me was easier. ; ) Either way, watch your step! : )

Wow, sounds like "to summit"!!! Thanks for this thread, I'm properly inspired to do the whole thing!!!!

Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent but I'd reccomend not summiting Mescalito via DS. It's a great climb but the descent is sketchy no matter how you do it. Planning on downclimbing to the top of the Cat raps is not feasible unless you've wired it from the ground up previously. Save yourself some hassle and rap after the four famous pitches. If you want adventure, climb Epinepherine.

If you do the summit bid, I hope the pics of the upper route that I posted on the DS page are helpful. Gigi and I had zero problems staying on route. As for the descent, I was already familiar with the terrain because I had summited via Cat twice previously. You can rap Cat with a single 60m but If you've never climbed Cat before, you probably won't be able to figure it out. It would be best for you to descend to the west. Good luck.

John Hegyes wrote:Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent but I'd reccomend not summiting Mescalito via DS. It's a great climb but the descent is sketchy no matter how you do it. Planning on downclimbing to the top of the Cat raps is not feasible unless you've wired it from the ground up previously. Save yourself some hassle and rap after the four famous pitches. If you want adventure, climb Epinepherine. If you do the summit bid, I hope the pics of the upper route that I posted on the DS page are helpful. Gigi and I had zero problems staying on route. As for the descent, I was already familiar with the terrain because I had summited via Cat twice previously. You can rap Cat with a single 60m but If you've never climbed Cat before, you probably won't be able to figure it out. It would be best for you to descend to the west. Good luck.

After climbing the 9 pitches of the Full Dark Shadows(lands you on a nice big terrace several hundred feet below summit) you can scramble to the top and then back down to the top of the route. Rope may be nice!! Or you finish the pitches and then look right about 250 feet. There is a nice set of shiny bolts. 6 60 meter rappels put you on the ground all off of nice bolts about 2 minutes upstream from the start of the route. You have to use your nose a bit to find the bolts but think where is would be logical to put them and you will find them. I have done the full DS over 15 times and think it is an awesome route. If you are into harder climbing try Risky Business into Heart of Darkness into upper Dark Shadows.(awesome linkup) This routes should not be feared but make sure you are comfortable at the grade. The gear is good just very specific! The descent is not sketchy at all. Cheers, DR

I was a relative noob when I went up Dark Shadows. I think it was one of the first "big" (~1000 feet, complicated descent) climbs I had ever done, and it was pretty manageable; started climbing around 9 am, back at the car at just about 7 pm. The raps down the gully - including one off a chockstone - Eric's "scariest rap of his life...off a tiny chockstone" - really aren't bad, and that version of the descent requires minimal technical downclimbing; like I said in my comment on DS, 15 feet of 5th class down-chimneying comprise the "difficulties." If your parnter is sketched out doing that, they can pretty easily lower themselves down onto your shoulders - I know, because my partner did get sketched, and she (at 5' 1") was able to lower onto my shoulders without trouble. Start early, bring snacks and H2O, and go for the summit. You'll live; and if you do get off track or lost or something, just remember this -

kellycordes.wordpress.com/2….

SUMMIT!

I've done the southern walk off twice, it is pretty well cairned, but pretty long. You head up canyon quite a ways before dropping down.

Have fun, start early.

Thanks again for all the beta everybody! Sounds like we're going to summit, and I'm super excited. Dale, your descent (6 60m rappels) sounds like a great option too. Has anybody else done that?

P.S. thanks John for putting those beta photos up on the DS page, HUGE help.

Dale Remsberg wrote: After climbing the 9 pitches of the Full Dark Shadows(lands you on a nice big terrace several hundred feet below summit) you can scramble to the top and then back down to the top of the route. Rope may be nice!! Or you finish the pitches and then look right about 250 feet. There is a nice set of shiny bolts. 6 60 meter rappels put you on the ground all off of nice bolts about 2 minutes upstream from the start of the route. You have to use your nose a bit to find the bolts but think where is would be logical to put them and you will find them. I have done the full DS over 15 times and think it is an awesome route. If you are into harder climbing try Risky Business into Heart of Darkness into upper Dark Shadows.(awesome linkup) This routes should not be feared but make sure you are comfortable at the grade. The gear is good just very specific! The descent is not sketchy at all. Cheers, DR

Dale, by 6 ea 60m rappels, do you mean 6 rappels on a single 60m rope? Thanks for your input, Steve

Ditto, you should go to the top. Nice route the whole way, have no idea when the tourist aspect of RR made DS a 4 pitch route. Makes no sense. Anyway, if you are in it for the adventure, I found a neat descent that is no doubt getting some traction. Proceed from the summit southwesterly following a few cairns and losing elevation. You will come to a steep gully which turns into a steep canyon requiring several single rope tree and chockstone raps (all good tat and biners as of last month) giving way to a canyoneering experience of sorts. Much shorter walk out from the base of Mescalito here vs the walk off route. Enjoy.