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Failing: 2007 BD Android Leashes for Cobra/Viper
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Well then that is weird! The mystery continues. |
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Well, I did some additional investigation. I'm 99% confident at this point, that the damage was caused by the metal tab flipping up (see below). Here's what I wrote to Black Diamond upon returning the parts. Letter to BD:February 14, 2008Attn: Chris Black Diamond Equipment Warranty and Repair 2084 East 3900 South Salt Lake City, UT 84124 Re: Failing 2007 Viper Android Leash Hello Chris, We spoke on Tuesday, regarding my 2007 Viper Android leashes that are failing. I have used the tools with the attachments installed for about 13 days on the ice, and all but one day I have climbed leashless. I am highly confident that the damage is caused by the ‘metal tab’ flipping up, and hitting the nylon (whereas with the pre-2007 viper design, this nicked the paint on the shaft). This is because: a) the ‘cylinder corner’ contacts the nylon and screw when manually ‘flipped up’ b) the ‘cylinder corner’ clearly shows visible wear and deformation, only on the ‘upper’ side, where it would impact the screw, webbing, or support bar -- if flipped up c) the webbing damage initiated and was worst at the center d) the mounting screws are damaged only on the ‘lower-half’ (when installed). It looks as if that part of the screw had been shot-peened (many small hits). Note that I had to use an SAE wrench to remove one of the bolts, because the provided metric wrench would no longer fit. e) the metal attachment bar is similar in appearance to the lower half of the screw (shot-peened appearance) where the hole is worn in the webbing, but not in other locations on the bar Other notes: - I could not locate any illustration or indication in the BD-provided Android Leash instructions that the user should remove the leash attachment point from the tool, if the user chooses to climb leashless. I do not suspect the designers intended for the attachment point to be removed each time the climber goes ‘leashless’. - The instructions do not illustrate or indicate where the washer should be installed (inside versus outside). - I think it is a routine occurrence amongst consumers using this leash that they will switch between leashless and leashed, without removing the attachment point from the tool. - Per my last point, I believe this has the potential to be a serious safety issue and should be escalated, pending the outcome of the BD review. In the current condition, if I had attached my leashes to my tools and hung, I suspect they may not have held body-weight. To any unsuspecting climber, this could prove catastrophic or fatal. I look forward to hearing back with the results of the BD root cause analysis. More details and climber forum discussion can be found at: mountainproject.com/v/climb… Thanks, Avery Nelson |
Avery Nelson wrote: Yeah Look closer... you DO have wear marks, but in your instance, the entire do-hickey flips up and has worn away the paint. On these leashes, it appears to hit the webbing... Good find Avery. Kirra, I'd check this over good. It could be bad if that wasn't just paint chipping and repeated impact created a hole or crack. |
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Seems to me, the solution to the whole problem, is to do away with the webbing all together. Take the stud the leash clip goes onto, drill a small hole through it, and mount it directly to the tool handle using the factory mount hole. |
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I just took my leash tabs off and noticed that the sharp edge at the top that comes into contact with the shaft, has cut into the shaft of both tools! So far, its only cut through the clear coat and not the carbon fiber (Cobra's). I also noticed that there is a recess on the bottom of the metal tab and so I placed the washer in there instead of on top below the head of the bolt as I had it before. Click picts to see larger text/circle. |
jfox wrote:But, maybe the washer was meant to go underneath. what did the destructions indicate? |
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Per my note to BD: Avery Nelson wrote:- The instructions do not illustrate or indicate where the washer should be installed (inside versus outside). At least, not that I could find. I meddled around with it when first getting the leash, and while the washer seems to fit nicely in the attachment, I don't think it was intended to go underneath. The inset screw mount actually raises above the surface of the shaft. Thus, the attachment do-hickey does not sit flush. |
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Yesterday, I received a call from Chris at BD. Basically, BD arrived at the same conclusion that I suggested earlier in this thread. The metal tab was flipping up, causing the nylon to abrade. BD is reviewing some potential design enhancements. The reason that they do not use a direct attachment system as Stymingersfink suggested is because it does not allow for enough degrees of freedom to maintain maximum strength. |
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Hey Avery! Just got back from Alberta myself. Ran my Cobras leashless pretty much all the time I was following and also noted the beginings of the problem that you have encountered. Thanks for posting as I probably wouldn't have noticed it as early otherwise. Hopefully BD will come up with a fix as I really like leading with leashes and following without. |
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The prototypes that BD sent me look pretty similar to the originals, but are made of stiffer webbing and sewn slightly differently. They seem to have done well for 5 days of climbing leashless, without any visible wear to the webbing. |
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I just received my leashes - from BD. They were on backorder for some time, which I suspect was due to the issues listed above. The new leashes have much thicker webbing on the "tool-attachment". The webbing is also stitched like a mini dogbone making it very ridged so there should be no way it can flap up during non leashed swings. This sounds a lot like the prototypes given to Avery to test. I believe this is the case and BD has resolved the leash issues. For those with the old leashes, a rubber band (zip tie or sting too) might work as a quick fix to stop the flapping. |
