Best climbs damaged by climbing while rock is wet compendium

I figured all the people who pooh-pooh the perils of climbing while Aztec Sandstone is wet would benefit from knowing concrete examples of classic Red Rock climbs damaged by climbers acting thoughtlessly. Post up, people need to understand this is happening and not some global warming stomping on the yeti population myth.

1. Caustic Cock, Cannibal Crag. Key holds broken winter 2014 by climbing while wet.
2. Meadowlark Lemon, Gateway Canyon. V13/14 boulder with holds broken while climbing while wet.

That makes total sense. I could have sworn Caustic had gotten harder . . .

The Pearl (V4/5), start hold broken in winter of 2014 after rainstorm. What if it had been the pocket instead...?
Sound of Power (5.12c), first crux (short person version) broken after rain in the spring of 2013, upper crux broken after rain 2014.
Pain Check (5.12a), short person intermediate gaining the crux broken following rain, spring 2013.

Suffering cats at the kitty crag . It actually got easier as the big move through the traverse got shorter.

Crux of Geometric Progression broke sometime in the last couple years. Heard it's gained a couple letters.

Maybe 8 or 10 years ago somebody blew out a good hooking edge on the 4th pitch of Spaceshot a couple of days after a storm.

Geometric Progression definitely broke. My husband and I weren't sure until we verified in a picture from the guide book. You now have you use some crusty ass shitty crimps to the right. We were bummed.

Is there a local climbers association that can work with the park to get signage about this up?

Pretty much everything at Stoney Point.

Under the boardwalk the the pier 2012. Big under-cling near the last bolt.

We could put up more signs, but people don't care. I think almost everyone knows not to climb after a rain but I don't think it would help......

Calico basin > riding hood wall > big bad wolf - Dec/2014 storms, holds broken on the first pitch.

Stone Nude said: Keep going, guys. People need to understand that real classics are getting ruined by this thoughtless practice.

Nice dude! Way to utilize this forum, I dig it. Bump!

Man, that makes sense, I thought Big Bad Wolf's first pitch got a little harder. A route like that is specifically vulnerable, given it's popularity, access and the nature of it's holds. Given time I bet it'll be 5.10 sooner or later.

Post signs is at least doing something to help as much as we can. I believe a lot of this reckless disregard for red rocks ethic is from visiting climbers who have either come so far that they don't care or maybe just because they don't know. Im hoping its just because they don't know.

Just gonna add that someone should Bump this thread every time it rains in Vegas. Seems like a minor way to maybe help. Hearing that sandstone breaks when it's wet is one thing but reading specific incidents may help people even more. Maybe we could get a loop of pics of broken holds to play along with sad music . Sorta like an ASPCA commercial. Remember only you can help!

Nothing pisses me off so much! It's so simple too--just stay off wet rock!
I agree that this should be bumped.

Makes sense on Caustic. I thought it felt different.

Bump this for the storm this week.

Too bad this is a real problem. Just out of curiosity, what would you consider an adequate amount of time to wait after a storm, generally speaking? How do you determine if the rock is dry enough?

If signs go up, they should definitely include alternative areas to climb at (local limestone to hit on the same day and Mesquite/St George limestone/basalt for subsequent days.) If visitors knew there were options only 1 hour away, hopefully they would make the drive and effort to preserve Red Rocks.

Yeah, my husband and I just left RR yesterday before the storm rolled in. We are obviously out of towners but we left before it got wet - we actually had a group campsite and contacted all the climbers in our party and told them to cut their trip short and everyone checked out. I thought that maybe with the cold temps, any snow/frost would take longer to melt and might leave the rock wet longer.

We did a mix of sport and bouldering, but the bouldering looks like it's in some danger. We heard about more holds breaking on classics...I really hope people back off. We did hear about people staying just from listening to conversations out in Kraft. Not cool. I hope no one is climbing out there today.

Chips ahoy at Owl Tor winter of 2013 mountainproject.com/v/chips…, a few key holds broke that winter in wet conditions. But the great thing about the Tor is most all holds can be replicated or chiseled back into the choss. After things dried out a very good hold craftsman drilled and glued it back together and it was as good as new.
I love manufactured climbing, there's nothing better. Honest.

I tread very carefully after it rains and try to make sure the rock is dry. Recently, I've begun wondering what the science is behind this folklore that rock is weak while wet and then somehow it's strength is returned while dry. As best I can tell, including after emailing some geology professors, it's a pretty unlikely scientific principle. Most of the physical instances that I can find research about do not return strength upon completion of the event. Take freeze thaw for instance, the damage is done and it doesn't return to a pre-wetness strength. The same goes for rock that has a high clay content. The water enters depending upon the hydraulic conductivity of the rock, expands the clay, which then fractures the rock. But at that point, it's broken, and there's nothjng that can "reseal" the fractures (unless you're going to epoxy microfractures).

I suppose my point is before we berate people we ought be sure on the science. After all, a mere correlation that perhaps reinforces our confirmation bias is a sorry excuse for evidence of causation. I am completely open to the principle of weak wet rock, I would just like the proponents of a this hypothesis to tell me why.