Escape the Belay...then what?

Bill Lawry wrote: The "continually and extensively" is accurate in my experience. Some of us have been practicing self-rescue a couple times a year for about five years. At that rate, it takes a few years just to start to feel comfortable with the prescribed scenario. And doing more frequent self-rescue practice honestly seems anti-theme to the reason(s) most of us climb. That said, many of the isolated tasks in self-rescue can / do spill over into relatively frequent non-self-rescue circumstances. Sometimes, it is helpful to have options during an otherwise normal climb.

This. The thread "zoo view stuck gear" has a good example of how these techniques could be useful.

Having Purcell's and knowing how to tie a prussik have been useful to me several times, in very small, non deadly situations. Learning to ascend with these is a ridiculously easy to learn/easy to remember skill that does not take much time, and the basic idea can be applied many, many ways. Ditto tying off a belay.

Once, when climbing outside, I was asked to just hold on for a sec, while my belayer tied off the belay and checked his phone. Evil? No, not when it is the SAR ringtone! And, I "self rescued" myself from embarassment while setting a route in the gym, and stupidly lowered out of reach of my ascender. Purcell to the rescue! On my harness, in the gym! Okay, but only when I'm setting. They make great makeshift anchors on overhung routes, too, to stay in reach of the wall.

Best, Helen :-)

Daniel Bookless wrote:So, I'm having a lot of trouble envisioning scenarios where escaping the belaying is warranted. Let's say I'm three pitches off the ground, the leader falls, she's not responding (there is only two of us). What then, I escape the belay and then solo up to her??? I escape the belay and down solo the climb and run back to my car and get help? I'm really confused here.

Here is an example where escaping the belay was the easy bit:
coldmountainkit.com/knowled…

David Coley wrote: Here is an example where escaping the belay was the easy bit: coldmountainkit.com/knowled…

I've read that before but it still is an impressive and interesting story. Maybe I should add rapping off my line into the ocean in my list of self rescue skills to practice. ;-p

I must say that I've rarely deliberately practiced rescue skills. I did a few when I first started climbing but largely rely on my knowledge toolkit and experience. The important stuff is being able to think on your feet.

I've done various funky stuff rescue type stuff in climbing for various reasons. (Never anything super serious.) You just need to think through all you actions.

How many people here have practiced a rescue rappel? Having FACE in CROTCH is an excellent position. The first time I did it for reasons of awkwardness I chose her not to have her face in my crotch, instead it was the back of her head. I quickly learnt why it is best. So next time I rescue rappel, its head in crotch time. :-)

A few people have mentioned fixing the rope to the anchor you are at, to then ascend it and reach an incapacitated leader. I'm assuming that this requires the anchor be built or partly rebuilt to take an upwards load?

I remember reading about oppositional pieces in anchors (one of John Long's books probably), but it seems this is not a popular practice. Though in a scenario where the leader must be reached, it seems it would be of great value. Especially considering that a follower may have no pro on them to reinforce the anchor, as the leader would likely have taken it all.

Thoughts?

If you are going to ascend the rope, you definitely want to evaluate (and if necessary augment) the anchor for upward pull.

Another option (mentioned by bearbreeder above) is to break down the anchor and start climbing, using the fallen leader as a counterweight. This is risky since you might not be able to judge the quality of the top piece, but perhaps you can judge the quality of some intermediate pieces. Also, you do know that the top piece did hold the fall.

Aside: it is also wise to evaluate the anchor in the case of a raise with mechanical advantage. RGold's 17:1 hoist could generate some real force!

Trusting the top piece to ascend seems to me the only realistic way of ending up in a Vertical Limit scenario.

patto wrote: Having FACE in CROTCH is an excellent position. The first time I did it for reasons of awkwardness I chose her not to have her face in my crotch, instead it was the back of her head. I quickly learnt why it is best. So next time I rescue rappel, its head in crotch time. :-)

Can you elaborate more on why this is? Obviously it depends on the terrain and what shape the rescuee is in, but if the terrain is low angle or has ledges, this sounds like a PITA. Maybe it is always a PITA?

I'm also interested in exploring the idea of being side by side, hip to hip with the device extended (only if the rescuee is conscious).

"Face in crotch"

"Hip to hip"

Time for a song ...
m.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqEg…

JeffL wrote:Can you elaborate more on why this is?

Sure.

If you are doing a rescue abseil your would generally be doing so if the person is incapacitated or incompetent. Either way they are unlikely to be in a position to assist.

By having them below you, you get the out of the way of your hands and feet and it is easy to maintain normal control of your decent. By having their head between your legs you are in a position to protect their head from striking rocks during the decent.

If they are facing the wall then the their legs stick out towards the wall and get in the way. This can be worse if their conscious and they try use their feet against the wall, this interferes with your control of the decent. (I performed a rescue abseil with an uninjured by incompetent participant, this behaviour was a PITA.)

JeffL wrote:Obviously it depends on the terrain and what shape the rescuee is in, but if the terrain is low angle or has ledges, this sounds like a PITA. Maybe it is always a PITA?

I don't see a problem with low angled. (I've did it on low angle terrain with ledges.) If there are ledges then having them bump their ass against the may be unavoidable. But you are going slowly and their head is protected so none of that should be an issue.

JeffL wrote:I'm also interested in exploring the idea of being side by side, hip to hip with the device extended (only if the rescuee is conscious).

That would be crazily awkward. That would put you off centre to your descender and basically and make one arm trapped against the other person.

Overall I didn't find the rescue abseil to be a PITA at all. It was a good learning experience, I felt I had full control. Like I said the only difficulty was the tendency for the rescuee to interfere with their legs. My belay device was slightly extended on a sling about 4 inches from my harness and the same sling was used to attach the rescuee at the correct height.

Thanks!

After you escape the belay, you can jug up the rope using 1 or 2 Prussiks and your partners weight acts as a counterbalance. Once to your partner, establish a second anchor, attach your partner to the second anchor using a radial release or munter mule overhand hitch. Take your partner off the rope, put it through the secondary anchor and tie them in. On the other side of the anchor, set up a rappel to yourself. Attach them to you, pop the hitch that connected them to the anchor, lower them onto to the rope, and simul rappel. Repeat until you are on the ground.

Seems like if the terrain is not too tough, self-belay and free (or French free, this isn't the time for style points) climbing up to the leader would be gentler on the top piece (unless the rescuer whipped on the way up) and potentially a lot faster.

I'm picturing though that with both ends of the rope fixed, a clove hitch self-belay would be really hard to feed, so a grigri or progress capture pulley would be pretty key for the free climbing method. Self-belay with a prussik would be a major no-no, wouldn't it?

Or maybe the risk of the rescuer falling is just too grievous, so it's got to be ascending the lead line?

Optimistic wrote:Self-belay with a prussik would be a major no-no, wouldn't it?

It is far from an ideal method, but I wouldn't call it a major no-no when a 'situation' arises.

I've done it on at least two occasions. Where there was a fixed line and I had to get up quickly. I certainly tested that the prussik grabbed reliably. Though in both cases the terrain was moderate.

patto wrote: It is far from an ideal method, but I wouldn't call it a major no-no when a 'situation' arises. I've done it on at least two occasions. Where there was a fixed line and I had to get up quickly. I certainly tested that the prussik grabbed reliably. Though in both cases the terrain was moderate.

I was just thinking that maybe prussiks can slip at fairly low loads, but maybe that's incorrect?
Might be a reason to carry my micro traxion in the Alpine "uh-oh" kit... They're amazingly light and seem like they'd be handy for 3 to 1 hauling someone as well.

Optimistic wrote: I was just thinking that maybe prussiks can slip at fairly low loads, but maybe that's incorrect? Might be a reason to carry my micro traxion in the Alpine "uh-oh" kit... They're amazingly light and seem like they'd be handy for 3 to 1 hauling someone as well.

You're going to be passing each piece of placed gear on your way up, and probably leaving them in place (unless you want to rely on only the top piece). So you'll have to remove your prusik (or take it off a carabiner) and reattach above every piece. The pieces of pro would stop a slide from your prusiks, si?

Edit: You could just unclip the rope from the piece while you pass the prusik, then reclip the rope to the piece. A little more risky, that way (and the whole process is risky)

Assuming a prusik cord lockered to belay loop ...

A step towards the more conservative might be to back that up by girthing a sling to your harness tie-in points and then locker the sling to the rope being ascended.

I would not recommend using a normal sling via-ferrata style to backup a prussic. Very high fall factor.

Edit:

Upon further reflection I see that the fall force has a chance of being absorbed by the rope and not the most recent piece of protection.

mbk wrote:I would not recommend using a normal sling via-ferrata style to backup a prussic. Very high fall factor.

Good point. Though the times I have practiced this, it seemed evident that the backup locker would not make a hard stop at the next piece / biner anymore than a prusik ... perhaps even less so given that the prusik is gripping the rope

Bill Lawry wrote:Assuming a prusik cord lockered to belay loop ... A step towards the more conservative might be to back that up by girthing a sling to your harness tie-in points and then locker the sling to the rope being ascended.

Unless I'm messed up here, always a possibility, if you are ascending the rope, you would at the very least have a prussik and a Purcell (foot loop), or stand-ins, wouldn't you? Otherwise, I'm assuming the prussik is your "belay" while you climb. Correct?

And, is there a discussion on here somewhere of French free techniques??? All I ever get when I go hunting is not helpful at all. Thanks!

... and also regarding mbk's comment ... perhaps this is outdated but Fasulo's Self-Rescue (1996 / 1999, page 58) shows the biner-to-rope backup for ascending the rope to a leader.