BD recalls are adding up...

Jim Turner wrote:I think he's talking about the $75 million loss mentioned above.

Gotcha, thanks Jim.

Moving a majority of your manufacturing to China and then moving it back wouldn't eat up $75 million would it? I heard they more or less bought the town in China.

Jim Turner wrote:I think he's talking about the $75 million loss mentioned above.

BD claimed a loss of goodwill, nearly all of the net loss EBITDA is from the goodwill write down. That is brand value, not cashflow. The second half of the "loss" is deferred tax that hit FY 2015. I've never thought BD's financials were particularly strong but they aren't going out of business. More like intentionally reducing equity value.

Freeman was never going to last, she looked like a CEO pick by the BOD. She was clearly a fish out of water.

J.Roatch wrote:Do you think this is related to them shifting production to China?

no, FROM China.
Although this does not fit with many people's political ideals, the fact is that most if not all of the recent stuff was repatriated manufacturing.

C.Williams wrote:Moving a majority of your manufacturing to China and then moving it back wouldn't eat up $75 million would it? I heard they more or less bought the town in China.

2015 sales were only down $1.5M. COGS rose slightly but not much. The "loss" was almost entirely administrative (goodwill and tax). Manufacturing in China is not as cheap as it once was, I doubt BD brought manufacturing back out of the goodness of their heart.

bearbreeder wrote:heres the 100$ question ... does BD inspect and test EVERY piece of gear that goes out .... or do they to a sampling? if its the latter it explains alot ;)

Amost all AQL sampling is made to catch problems that are not infrequent. Something inherant in the process. Process control is to keep the process from deviating and creating a situation in which some of the parts 'escape' the normal manufacturing and deviate from that.

In this case, it appears that a manufacturing step was skipped.
Testing parts from the normal flow can't catch that, of course.

I'm guessing that the defective part went off and back into production, circumventing the normal process and escaping a step.

But once you prove that such a thing has happened, you have to presume that it might have happened other times, and for this sort of equipment, you have a responsibility to both find out how that happened and to correct it and demonstrate that it the actual cause has been solved and can not happen again. That is more or less what I do for a living at another company, and that's pretty much how it works, if well done.

What would be ironic is if the part were part of a QC step where it was taken offline for an AQL-style inspection, then re-entered the process at the wrong step, and as such, escaped... I wouldn't doubt it.

I think it is all a publicity stunt

Mark lewin wrote:I just took a nasty whipper on a C4 today? Could others do the same? of course! Point is it held together didn't move a bit. They make good stuff. Used them for years. A recall doesn't mean they suck. It means they are being responsible

The recall is responsible.
The need for it is the result of an uncontrolled process (irresponsible).

Falling on a piece and having it hold because it is good is like saying that drunk driving is safe because most drunk drivers don't get in accidents.

Falling on one and having it fail and then saying that they are all unsafe is like saying 'yer gonna die' because you are climbing and gear is bad.

Both are fallicies, and without more facts it's hard to say what the real situation is. But the fact remains that BD has had quite a few incidents lately with escapes from process on what should be considered life-application gear. And that's a big deal.

While I'm not ready to convict, so to speak, I'd say caution is merited.

The lesson to be learned from all this is not a matter of brand loyalty (buy or don't buy BD products). It's that we all need to inspect our gear very thoroughly and regularly. QC is really awesome but it will never be flawless because, after all, humans aren't flawless. Inspecting your gear before using it is paramount.

For me that means inspecting everything I've touched since last inspection, monthly. For those who climb less frequently, it might not need to be as frequent. For those who climb more frequently than me may need to inspect their gear more frequently. It's also a good idea to do a thorough inspection every time you buy something before putting it into use. If you've whipped on a piece, you should probably inspect it at the end of the day or even have your 2nd quickly inspect it after cleaning it.

Morgan Patterson wrote: That was a tough year for all of us...

No!! Not the teddy bear with the gumdrop buttons!

Buff Johnson wrote: No!! Not the teddy bear with the gumdrop buttons!

That teddy bear had an important role in that movie... without that foreshadowing it would have just been another fall.

Eli-I completely agree.

Self inspecting is so freaking important. I do it more with my ropes, but gear and even new gear, is also so important.

Good conversation folks!

But i think you could argue that it takes about 928% more skills to be a CEO so they are justified to be paid more. If you think its so easy to be a CEO then why arent you one?

you aren't a CEO because you aren't skilled enough. you spend your day complaining about how much other people in this world make instead of actually doing anything yourself.

Hobo Greg wrote: What have I done? Hows not bankrupting millions of American's retirement funds in 2008? How about not creating toxic messes and then lying about them to consumers? Or illegally tapping public aquifers? You know, things CEO's do.

I hazard to guess by your generalizations that you are not a CEO not by an absence of polluting the environment or other ruthless financial gains, but that you, as I, lack the wherewithal to even start.

BTW, Black Diamond has never failed me...

FWIW, corporate executives are paid what they are because of high competition for the talent available. The pool of qualified individuals is small compared to the jobs available, so to try to attract the best talent, the wage and compensation has exploded.

Compared the pushing the button on a rivet press, which anyone with a high school diploma can do (and even some without). Lots of people able to do the job drives the wage down, or keeps it stagnant.

Hobo Greg wrote: Typical of the internets and of mountain project. When presented with factual information, you'd rather try and discredit ME and not the factual information I've presented. Yeah, never mind the math that shows how the American worker's wage has grown so much slower than executive wages have since 1978. Lets focus instead on why I haven't become a CEO yet. Why is this the typical human reaction? You don't need to BE a physicist to understand physics, to BE a quarterback to understand football. Why then do I have to BE a CEO in order to point out a pretty glaring disparity in pay between the vast majority of us and the 1% at the top, and how that disparity has grown over time?

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with an executive's pay rising faster than the worker's pay.

Hobo Greg wrote: Even to the point where worker's pay isn't enough for a single provider in most households? So that both parents have to work just so their kids can have a shot at college and debt accumulation? We're seeing the destruction of the middle class because of simple corporate greed. Back to the very poor and the very rich.

Rather than railing against corporations and "fat cat" CEOs, one needs to do what it takes to earn more money:

Work more hours

Get a second job

Change jobs

Get an education or learn a trade

Start your own business

Invent something

Or, just blather on about "income inequality." And I'm not pointing that comment at you, Greg, unless you blather on about income inequality.

Hobo - Right on man. Thanks for fightin the good fight.

I hope these guys are just playing devil's advocate. The numbers are startling and have ties to many of our nations greatest shortcomings.

Hobo Greg wrote: Haha I once was working 70 hours a week of manual labor, guess thats not working long enough hours! Should we go back to when the average workweek for the industrial American worker was a staggering 107 hours?? I know Donald Chump and his ilk would surely love to see that. Not I, and not the millions of hard working Americans that deserve better. Why is the burden always on US, the worker, to improve? Why not hold those who have exploited the workers for millennia finally pay their fair share? Im willing to bet most all of you have paid more in income tax than has General Electric! Yet you dare to rail on the poor for speaking up? Mike Brady, thanks man! I feel like Im in a twilight zone sometimes, a la Trump Vs. Hillary hehe

Tsk, tsk, Greg - you sound like a victim. You are the captain of your ship. Steer it right! (wasn't that inspiring? :)

Thank you for allowing me to participate in the discussion. I'm done now.