Is stick clipping 1st bolt cheating?

Is stick clipping 1st bolt or any other cheating?

If you are worried you will get hurt hitting the ground if you blow the clip go ahead and stick it. If you want to repeat it in the manner the FA or your buds did and they didn't use a stick then don't use a stick. If the route is R or X rated but you use a long stick to avoid the R/X factor you can't really say you did a 5.10R or X route. It is your ascent you will know what you did on it and you are pretty much the only person who cares.

Some areas were bolted with the understanding that the first bolt would be stick clipped.

It seems to be the widely accepted norm for any sport climbs these days. So often routes have first bolt at +15 ft and over crux like moves.

The purer style would be to go ground up. If you think its cheating, then yes, it is. Its all up to you, brah! Thats the great thing about our sport...no rule book (unless you compete I guess).

yes

In my mind it is cheating. Since you are asking I suspect you feel the same way but are looking for approval to do the opposite.

John Wilder wrote:Many modern sport routes are bolted with the intent that a stick clip be used.

JW, Any examples of Front Range Sport crags where this is the ethic?

I dunno.

What does the damn book say?

Oh, wait;

THERE ISN'T ONE!

AntinJ wrote: JW, Any examples of Front Range Sport crags where this is the ethic?

Several routes at Shelf; cruxy, bad un-boltable rock off the deck. We've got a few at Castlewood too. Its up to the climber to figure it out though. You either do the bold boulder problem start or you back off, or you stick it and do the route.

AntinJ wrote: JW, Any examples of Front Range Sport crags where this is the ethic?

I can't really think of too many in the front range, but mapple canyon seems to have a lot of routes set up that way.

I don't think it's cheating especially if safety is an issue. I'd feel pretty stupid if I broke my ankle because I decided to no stick clip a high first bolt.

John Wilder wrote:No. Many modern sport routes are bolted with the intent that a stick clip be used. It is generally accepted sport climbing practice to stick clip the first (and sometimes second) bolt.

I like topropping too. Walking around will give you the opportunity to make a much better anchor.

Steve

I personally have never used one but have helped friends rig up makeshift ones so they could avoid potential bone breaking falls. The situation that comes to mind is the first and only bolt on Terror in Tiny Town, City of Rocks. ID. The FA was done without a bolt. I dont regularly climb at a level where I feel I need one. I like my belayer to treat the space between the ground and the first bolt like a boulder problem if it looks sketchy. If you make a habit out of stick clipping everything then your only cheating yourself out of one of the great feelings of climbing.

Ok how about this to add on. Just for those of you who think it's cheating to stick clip, is it cheating to place gear before the first and second bolts?

Evan Sanders wrote:Ok how about this to add on. Just for those of you who think it's cheating to stick clip, is it cheating to place gear before the first and second bolts?

no

or... how would it sound if someone said "placing gear in the first 20 feet of a trad route is cheating"?

How a climbing route is protected is a personal choice.
Some interesting and highly contrived ways to protect routes have been invented in the past and are still evolving today. Most of the methods used also artifically add difficulty to the route. For example, if someone were to say "the crux of this route is clipping the third bolt", is that really the true crux of the route or is that the man made contrived crux? What would the grade be if you just toproped it? Why not toprope it? Maybe its to steep to toprope?
In the end, toproping seems to be the least contrived way to protect a climb when possible but still hasn't gained full credibility in todays climbing circles.
I'll start a list of ways to protect a route to illistrate the sillyness of it all. Most contrived to least contrived. Please add to the list if I mised a few. Keep in mind that this relates mostly to single pitch routes.

ground up
highpoint and lower(similar to yoyo but pull the rope each try)
onsite, no draws on the route
onsite, draws on, and probably visible chalk
preclipped
redpoint, draws on/off
pink point
head point
yoyo
toprope

No. Of course not. Just climb the damn thing and enjoy yourself. Oy, the baggage!

My intent with this post was to see what if any "ethics" are applyed stick clipping. As I am not a sport climber, I believe that if you have to stick clip then the climb might be above your grade level. If I was climbing a TRAD route and pre placed pro I would consider that cheating. I would like to think the FA of a route needing a stick clip probbaly was not originally done that way. And no im not looking for approval to start stick clipping, just trying to settle a friendly discussion between climber

Lots of routes are bolted with stick clipping in mind including plenty at Vail too. Sport climbing is not trad climbing, I like my ankles (sorry lefty) and if I stick clipped it, I'll tell you. But I generally would not consider it cheating on a sport climb.

if you don't stick clip the first bolt on dreamcatcher you're looking at 15 or so feet of 12c slab with a 25 or 30 foot fall onto jagged rocks.

I would need to know THE RULES before I could say if it was cheating or not. My favorite thing about climbing is that there are no rules.

Who cares.

Do what you're comfortable with. Try not to get crippled. I've been on both sides of this argument.

If you're not going to get rich or famous at it, at least try not to get hurt.