Beal escaper, how do we really feel?

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Good thing it can't happen once, then

Let your Mom forever rap with it?

Fan Ywrote:

what a joke of a device...speaking of adding completely unnecessary complication to a simple procedure! if this device somehow saved you time in rappelling, work on your transition at each rap instead!

I've had this device save my ass in the alpine. It's not a time saver and not intended to be one. Carrying it as a backup in case of need for emergency rappels helps on routes where the plan is to travel up and over, or where a single rope and not tagline should be sufficient. 

It's definitely not a joke, and works well. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Interesting. 

What about low angle routes? I bailed on a low angle route last year from the top of P1 with the Escaper and had to scramble up a rock to get up higher so that the rope line was more direct and there was less friction, only then did the rope come free. Must have taken me fifteen minutes to get the rope down? Had that been the same rap but on a multi I would have been fucked. 

You haven't had any experiences like that?

When there is friction between you and the anchor the best method is to pull hard on the rappel rope and then let go of it so that it snaps upward and releases the weight on the bungee so it can contract and loosen the tresse on the Escaper.

If you still have trouble, read my long post in this thread for optimizing your Escaper.  

Another big advantage is that it is a bit scary to use, so you are more likely to send than bail   

NateCwrote:

I've had this device save my ass in the alpine. It's not a time saver and not intended to be one. Carrying it as a backup in case of need for emergency rappels helps on routes where the plan is to travel up and over, or where a single rope and not tagline should be sufficient. 

It's definitely not a joke, and works well. 

Sure, but that's not what the OP was asking.

It's a gimmick, if u are on a multi you will probably want 2 ropes for backup logistics

climber patwrote:

It takes quite a while tugging on it to get it to release.

Tradibanwrote: The actual fear is it releasing too early.

At the end of the day, we are all fighting the same fight.

Houghton Gremlinwrote:

It's a gimmick, if u are on a multi you will probably want 2 ropes for backup logistics

That logistics you speak of is almost always rappelling. 

Alex Langfieldwrote:

I'm so tempted to get this beal escaper, it would save soooo much time in big rappels. Its just seems so sketch idk why, but I wanna get some opinions on here about what people think about it, and people who've been using it. 

If you really wanted to save time with one you'd need two, one for each end of the rope. so that as one partner is starting to yank the top one down, partner 2 can be getting the next one setup..

that said, IMO, if you're planning on using an escaper for planned multi-stage raps, then you really should have brought a good tag line like the petzl pur which gives you heaps more safety margin and is light enough that it shouldn't mater.

I love the escaper, but it is a niche tool not an-every time kind of thing. Aside from true just in case raps, I'll bring it anytime I know there's maybe just one or 2 long raps and everything else goes with a 70. or when you read in the comments some Joe that said, "worked with a 70 barely" etc..

All of that said ^ I still prefer to Reepshnur in a lot of the "I don't know if we'll make down it but we'll find out" scenarios. 

Jordan Daywrote:

When there is friction between you and the anchor the best method is to pull hard on the rappel rope and then let go of it so that it snaps upward and releases the weight on the bungee so it can contract and loosen the tresse on the Escaper.

If you still have trouble, read my long post in this thread for optimizing your Escaper.  

I'm going to experiment with tuning my escaper. If it turns out I can always get it down once that is accomplished I will update this thread. That route I mentioned is at one of my home crags so I can easily test it a third time. 

Cheers!

Fan Ywrote:

Sure, but that's not what the OP was asking.

Yeah. Fair. I was addressing the idea that it’s a joke of a device.

It’s not, but it’s not what the OP wants it to be either. 

I've never used the Beal escaper, but Jordan Day's Escaper is legit! It's a great niche piece to always have in your pack. A high quality well made tool that fits in the smallest pocket. I would reserve such a piece of equipment for the lightest of endeavors where i want to move light and fast. And if going lighter makes you faster? Then yes, using one (or two) will increase speed. IMO, the accumulation of effort throughout the endeavor should be vetted before choosing to use this piece versus two ropes or tag line and rope.

Also, How you pull the rope is critical! Jordan's description is the gold standard method that should be well versed before going out.

Jordan, are you still making these? If so, may I order 3 or 4 more? I will pay! My friends are jealous!

JCS

My feelings can be summed up like this: I was nervous watching the guy that rapped after Ryan in that HowNot2 vid. It’s a cool idea, I just don’t see the point in these days of light ropes and proven pull-cord systems as discussed above. 

Tradibanwrote:

The actual fear is it releasing too early.

If climbing as a pair this is not really a worry. It can't happen for first person down because a stopper knot should be tied which prevents release. Thus the setup is tested and any unlikely slippage noted before the second person follows. I suppose if there was dangerous slippage one solution would be for the first person to safely prusik or climb at least half way back up, and then that abseil might be done in two stages with a doubled rope..

As others have said a major problem is difficulty in releasing, but again the first person down can check that release is possible.

it can save time in the sense that you will be doing half as many rappels and you won't have to stop and build bail anchors which can be fast sometimes and extremely time consuming in other cases. Definitely more of a weight savings device than time savings but they work great for that if used correctly. I have used jordans handmade escapers for 30+ raps with zero release/slippage issues, including rapping off v-threads, and over bergschrunds/pulling through snow, and on a single 6mm line, and stretchy 7.3mm ropes. In two cases they took 20+ bounces to release but that still is only about 5-10 minutes.

Those saying they are a joke or not worth it likely do not understand or see their, admittedly very niche, uses. (but to the OP, yeah don't start using these because you think they will save you time) . 

I have not heard of Jordan Day's escaper.  Can you post a link or a picture of one? 

I love my Beal escaper!  It is bomber and in many situations way better than a second rope. I have used it many times with no issues. It is not going to unravel with you rapping on it unless you thread it wrong. You have to pull down hard then let go about 20 times for it to cut loose. You can’t recreate this even on ledgy rappels- we tried!  With a backup, of course. Those who like to hate and type will always be there, hating and typing. But those who like to carry one rope will love this thing. Until you get stuck one day, I guess. Choose wisely when to use it is my advice. For certain situations it is super nice. Including:  free hanging raps and raps that get you to the ground. 

I too love my Escaper. It lives in the pack but has worked great the few times I've used it. Perfect to bring on alpine ridges with the occasional rap or up and over routes just in case. I used to climb with double ropes mostly to be able to rap down in an emergency/bad weather but very much prefer a single rope and an escaper. Easier rope handling, you can use a grigri and it makes it possible to use fix and follow techniques and simuling with MT etc.

So does a pull cord of course so it's a matter of saving weight as has already been concluded.

As Ricky, I have had to LRS to climb up and get ropes unstuck. If you pull a rope with a pull cord and it gets stuck when it's out of reach, you're faced with having to LRS up on the pull cord? Is this a concern for those of you using that system?

climber patwrote:

I have not heard of Jordan Day's escaper.  Can you post a link or a picture of one? 

Link is a little higher up on this page.

I've used my Escaper on a half dozen routes, or so.  Saves me 5 to 6 pounds, or so.  Yeah, I had my doubts about it, at first, sure, but it has since earned its place in my pack, in lieu of a 2nd rope.

I like it.  Especially for rope solo stuff.

i shorewrote:

If climbing as a pair this is not really a worry. It can't happen for first person down because a stopper knot should be tied which prevents release. Thus the setup is tested and any unlikely slippage noted before the second person follows. I suppose if there was dangerous slippage one solution would be for the first person to safely prusik or climb at least half way back up, and then that abseil might be done in two stages with a doubled rope..

As others have said a major problem is difficulty in releasing, but again the first person down can check that release is possible.

You don’t sound so sure and releasing prematurely or not releasing at all, either way it sounds like this device adds complication to the already leading cause of death in climbing.