First set of Nuts

Big thanks for everyone's advice! I ended up finding a used set in the local area online for 10 bucks with a couple old cams too! Thanks again. For the help

mountainhick wrote: For me:

1- BD standard curved nuts
2- DMM offsets, only because they compliment the BDs (LOL, Patrik loves my DMM offsets.)
3-DMM wallnuts as easy to place as BD, harder to remove.
4-WC rocks, I never got along with thier taper, prefer BD

99- Metolius curved nut, least favorite ever, just terrible for removal. Melt them down and recycle as beer cans.

This is for everywhere, from Eldo to JT to Squamish etc

I do mix in some various smaller brass, even old school RPs when appropriate.

A different perspective: I've been using Metolius Curve Nuts since they first came out.  Thousands of placements.  Have never had to leave one, and absolutely no sense that they need any more work to get out than other nuts.  I think the straight taper from top to bottom makes them easier to judge and much easier to remove if fallen on, while the front-to-back curve makes them more solid in flared cracks.

I agree that it is becoming a "cam world," but it is to the detriment of optimal protection.  An appropriate mantra is cams for parallel-sided placements, nuts for tapered placements.  If you climb in an area where the cracks are primarily parallel-sided, then cams are naturally going to predominate.  But in lots of other places, putting cams in tapered placements just encourages walking, which makes the placement less predictable and more likely to fail.  And as cracks get into the finger-size range, cams become less reliable while nuts can be just as solid as they are in the bigger ranges.  The idea of placing a crappy nut in order to save a cam for later is obviously flawed, but what i see far more of in popular areas like the Gunks is crappy cams where a nut would have been bomber.

Cams also depend on the coefficient of friction of the rock.  So a cam placement can be solid in granite but totally fail in exactly the same configuration in limestone, basalt, and some quartzite.  This calls for a challenging adaptation of placement technique with very high failure costs.  But a good nut placement depends on geometry, not coefficient of friction, and if solid in one rock type will be solid in all rock types as long as the rock itself can withstand the loads.

Literally anything made by a reputable manufacturer. I personally use a set of Trango (chockstones?), but that’s just what I was given when I got started. I’ve never seen another set on someone else’s rack, and also never had a partner complain that they were junk. Just buy whatever set you like and/or can, and spend lots of time becoming proficient at placing them.
I would also recommend buying a few extra ovals, and runners. 

Sorry, didn't read any replies. Here we go internet:

Priorities are 1) Safe and will hold

Any certified gear is safe. Whether it will hold depends on you (assessing rock quality, correct placement, properly extended,..)

 2) Easy to place

Does not depend on the nut, but your judgement.

3) a reasonable cost. Let me know what you think.

The cheapest one you can get. Used is ok as long as it looks good and the wires aren't damaged in any way or kinked.

Trenton Allmon wrote: Big thanks for everyone's advice! I ended up finding a used set in the local area online for 10 bucks with a couple old cams too! Thanks again. For the help

Thanks for updating us in the outcome. That’s the best set.... the one you get the best deal on!

rgold wrote:
Cams also depend on the coefficient of friction of the rock.  So a cam placement can be solid in granite but totally fail in exactly the same configuration in limestone, basalt, and some quartzite.  This calls for a challenging adaptation of placement technique with very high failure costs.  But a good nut placement depends on geometry, not coefficient of friction, and if solid in one rock type will be solid in all rock types as long as the rock itself can withstand the loads.

A good cam placement will depend entirely on rock geometry. If there is a constriction below the cam, the type of rock doesn't make any practical difference.  A less-than-ideal cam placement will depend to some extent on coefficient of friction. The important difference is that cams allow the option of less-than-ideal placements in places where a nut would never work at all.

Sloppy Second wrote: A good cam placement will depend entirely on rock geometry. If there is a constriction below the cam, the type of rock doesn't make any practical difference.  A less-than-ideal cam placement will depend to some extent on coefficient of friction. The important difference is that cams allow the option of less-than-ideal placements in places where a nut would never work at all.

a textbook placement can literally slide out in limestone. I have seen it first hand. It is indeed friction dependant. The fact we can not explain how friction works is another matter.

Fran M wrote:

a textbook placement can literally slide out in limestone. I have seen it first hand. It is indeed friction dependant. The fact we can not explain how friction works is another matter.

You saw a cam slide through a constriction?

The lobes literally got smaller as the cam moved?