Lowering with a Guide ATC?

When you choose to use a “specialized” piece of gear for climbing it’s best to learn how to use it thoroughly on the ground before using it on a climb.

Gri-gris suck for multipitch and still require you to bring an ATC for rappels anyway (unless you really know what you are doing).  

sean burke wrote: A Gri Gri really only has three uses, while the ATC has many many more, making it a more functional tool, but that does come with a learning curve that needs time investment to learn important systems, like safely lowering an injured climber, etc.  Also Gri Gri's will not always hold inverted falls while soloing, which adds potential for an accident with over trusting the device while belaying the second. 

What does soloing have to do with belaying the second?  (Note the key word “soloing”)

David Coley wrote:

David, the redirect is 100% needed. An open grigri offers very little friction. The friction is normally provided by the rope exiting the device over the running surface. The re-direct ensues the rope exits the grigri over this surface, rather than into thin air.

Because a lower might be an emergency situation (second stung by bees, hit on head by rock....), it is very sensible to place this redirect carabiner ready to go on the shelf (or equivalent) when you start bringing the second up. Chances are you won't need it, but it needs to be in place everytime. Otherwise in a panic situation, one might be tempted to pull that handle without a redirect - which in a low friction situation might well be fatal.

Lowering with a grigri without a redirect is not easy.  My only experience was 17yrs ago when I was asked to lower a friend on his grigri.  I asked if he’s ever tried it and he says yes.  I had never used one before and without a redirect it was very difficult to control the speed using the brake handle.  It was a very jerky descent as the grigri locking up randomly.  It would have been much easier and safer if we had fixed the rope and he rappelled using the grigri himself.   And the grigri would stay with him.  

Check this article and example out.  I found it rummaging through my library, but I remembered this example that is used by many in Ouray.  Practice at home or at the crag.  It’s a great way to transition safely. 

this 30-point bullet list on how to lower a climber with an ATC guide is a perfect example of why it is moronic to use one.  saying the atc guide is more useful than a grigri is just pure facepalm.  i bought an ATC guide when it first came out, and after about 2 pitches it went straight into the gear bin that has all that old crap that we never use.

sean burke wrote: A Gri Gri will not always hold inverted falls while soloing,

Run the ropes through a biner on your leg loop.