Getting started Outside

Hey all!

I've been climbing in a gym for a bit and am climbing on a 5.10bish level right now. My partner and I were looking to get started climbing outside sometime in the next few months. I looked around but havent found much in the way of topics on that. Can someone point me to a good resource or offer any advice for outdoor rookies?  Right now we would likely be toproping, neither of us is lead certified or trained yet.

I assume I'll need to buy a rope and helmet?  I already have my own harness, atc, etc.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but how does toproping work in the wild?  Does one of us have to hike to the top and place the rope on an existing anchor?  (Im mainly looking at established routes on this site right now)  

Any advice is welcome!  Thanks for answering and sorry if it turns out I'm just blind in looking for this info!

Mike Mathis wrote: Hey all!

I've been climbing in a gym for a bit and am climbing on a 5.10bish level right now. My partner and I were looking to get started climbing outside sometime in the next few months. I looked around but havent found much in the way of topics on that. Can someone point me to a good resource or offer any advice for outdoor rookies?  Right now we would likely be toproping, neither of us is lead certified or trained yet.

I assume I'll need to buy a rope and helmet?  I already have my own harness, atc, etc.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but how does toproping work in the wild?  Does one of us have to hike to the top and place the rope on an existing anchor?  (Im mainly looking at established routes on this site right now)  

Any advice is welcome!  Thanks for answering and sorry if it turns out I'm just blind in looking for this info!

Mike,

Your best bet is to find an experienced outdoor climber and go with them. Maybe you can find such a person at your gym?

There are Gym to Crag classes available in some locations, so that would be a good start, if you can find one. Check your local REI.

You should get a helmet. If you decide to go out on your own, you will obviously need your own rope. You will also need to know how to build an anchor, which will require some webbing, slings or cord and some carabiners. And yes, you will hike to the top of the crag/cliff to set up the toprope, then either hike back down or rappel down.

I'd recommend getting a 10 mm or greater rope. Cheapest dynamic climbing rope you can find.

Get some books about rock climbing and anchors. Stay safe and have fun.

https://www.amazon.com/Rock-Climbing-Mastering-Mountaineers-Outdoor/dp/1594858624/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546871572&sr=8-1&keywords=rock+climbing+mastering+basic+skills

Mike Mathis wrote:I assume I'll need to buy a rope and helmet?  I already have my own harness, atc, etc.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but how does toproping work in the wild?  Does one of us have to hike to the top and place the rope on an existing anchor?  (Im mainly looking at established routes on this site right now)  

You don't need to buy a rope. What you need is to find someone experienced as a mentor to take you out and show you how to do everything right. Or hire a guide to teach you, or take a course at the climbing gym. You're not blind, the reason you can't find any information on this is because this is not stuff you can learn from a couple of webpages. If you don't set it up correctly, you will die, pure and simple.

My first outdoor climbing experience was toproping at Great Falls and Carderock along the Potomac, it wasn't the best climbing, but it got me hooked. There are no existing (man made) anchors for you to just clip your rope to. You need to build your own anchor, sometimes it's as easy as using a really big tree, but sometimes it involves placing trad gear at ground level. I had experienced climbers teach me how to build those anchors, and check my setup, before I ever ventured out on my own. Don't try to learn this stuff from the Internet.

Mike, I see you're in burtonsville.
Earth treks has classes in the gym every now and then to help introduce you to outdoor climbing. No idea when the next one might be. I believe they also do outdoor sessions at carder rock, which will probably be one of your best options for top roping in the area (although it does kinda suck there. welcome to MD climbing.), but those will be in the summer. Everything at carder rock and great falls that's listed as a TR means you build an anchor at the top and hang your rope, walk around to the base (or rappel if you're so inclined), and climb. Anchors in the area are usually slung trees with static line extending your master point over the edge to reduce wear on your TR. In some situations you may also want to use nuts or cams in your anchor, but it's not that common around here. You need the proper gear and knowledge to be able to do this. Remember that this anchor is a single point of failure in a TR setup, so you need to have confidence in building it. Know anchor building principles and proper knots. 

Hi Mike, congrats on moving beyond the gym.

You will need to learn how to set up top rope anchors so perhaps the best thing to do is take a gym-to-crag class, which is offered by many gyms.

Building a reliable anchor is a very serious matter as your lives will literally depend on it. It is not difficult to learn the basics, but it is something you absolutely need to have reliable knowledge/understanding of. And every crag is a little different, so you need to know how to adapt the basic principles per the situation. This needs to be taught by someone who really knows what they are doing.

You can also read the AMGA Single Pitch Manual, which covers the basics and is very reliable. But I would still take the class. An alternative is to find someone experienced who can teach you, but there are a lot of inexpert experts out there, so you have to be careful.

In addition to the rope and helmet you will need anchor building material (a good start is something like at least 50' of static rope and a few locking biners. This has to be climbing-specific, UIAA/ CE  approved gear.). A set of 6 quickdraw will also be useful.

Yes, generally for top rope you walk to the top, build the anchor, thread the rope through the master point and  thrown it down, walk back down ,and take turns  climbing up.

Again, I strongly suggest you take a gym-to-crag course at your local gym. 

Thanks for the great and quick replies!  That clears it up. I'll check with my gym (Earth Treks) next time I go and see when they might have their next class and also look into finding a third to come with us at least the first few times! I'm not eager to climb in cold weather so I'm fine with waiting until spring or summer for this. The recent stint of warm weather got me thinking about this a bit early. I cant wait to start outside!

Whatever you do, Mike, learn how to clean sport anchors and rappel in the gym. With luck, your gym will have a low anchor just off the mats that you can do this on. By far, these are the riskiest thing you will do climbing outside at a sport crag, which I assume will be your first outdoor destination. 

While you're waiting for springtime:
http://www.falcon.com/book/9780762770328

Mike Mathis wrote: Hey all!

I've been climbing in a gym for a bit and am climbing on a 5.10bish level right now. My partner and I were looking to get started climbing outside sometime in the next few months. I looked around but havent found much in the way of topics on that. Can someone point me to a good resource or offer any advice for outdoor rookies?  Right now we would likely be toproping, neither of us is lead certified or trained yet.

I assume I'll need to buy a rope and helmet?  I already have my own harness, atc, etc.

Also, this might be a dumb question, but how does toproping work in the wild?  Does one of us have to hike to the top and place the rope on an existing anchor?  (Im mainly looking at established routes on this site right now)  

Any advice is welcome!  Thanks for answering and sorry if it turns out I'm just blind in looking for this info!

In addition to GunkieMike's book suggestion, please read (completely and re-read in some cases) Climbing from Gym to Crag by S. Peter Lewis / Dan Cauthorn and then the other one at Falcon Press on Climbing Anchors by John Long / Bob Gaines. I would also suggest (as others have) to scrape together some $$ for a guide to take you out for your first time.

PS - yes, you will need to buy a rope, it's needed every once in a while :-)

From reading the post above, I would think top rope climbs might as well be rocket science. Study, take classes, have a mentor, ect.....   I don't think it is all that hard.  I didn't learn in a gym and I didn't do any of the above.  The internet wasn't really a great source of information when I got started. I am not saying any of the above is bad.  It may even be necessary for certain individuals.  I don't know the OP and can't judge his ability to critically think.  If you have a natural inclination toward the mechanical side of physics and can logic through how things work, setting up a top rope and climbing safely can be done. Use the above advise to the level that makes you comfortable to accept the risk you will be taking during your climbing adventure and then enjoy. If an area with established anchors is near by, I would think anyone can figure out how to place draws in the end of the chains and then top rope.  If you really are nervous about cleaning and raping then just hike back to the top when you are done and pull the gear off from the top.

Leron wrote: From reading the post above, I would think top rope climbs might as well be rocket science. Study, take classes, have a mentor, ect.....   I don't think it is all that hard.  

Its not rocket science, but it does require care. Same goes for progressing to leading, especially trad. There are far too many people who die in completely preventable climbing accidents and anyone beginning to climb outside should approach it with the attention needed for rocket science. Unless you have zero care of your own health and your family (if you were to crater and die)

Leron wrote:  I would think anyone can figure out how to place draws in the end of the chains and then top rope.  

Draws, you say?

Tim Stich wrote: Whatever you do, Mike, learn how to clean sport anchors and rappel in the gym. With luck, your gym will have a low anchor just off the mats that you can do this on. By far, these are the riskiest thing you will do climbing outside at a sport crag, which I assume will be your first outdoor destination. 

Absolutely this. While transitioning from gym to outside might as well baby step it into sport climbing first.

I would urge you to choose either having your belay partner lower you or rapelling as the default method. Rapelling is usually not the choice because of having to use a hand off the system to clean the draws. So let's say you default to lowering. That imposes a level of deep trust in your partner. It also requires that you adopt the ability to communicate to a redundant degree.
Always communicate each step of the threading process.
Always have a long-ish runner connecting you to the anchors. You never fully commit to going back onto 100% partner belay, regardless of what is said, until you prove that he is supporting you because your lifeline long runner has full slack in it while you are supported.
Always make sure his end has a knot, by asking him to verify, before committing to being lowered.
Keep these redundant rules in place with every route and you greatly reduce the risks of an accident.
Of course, get trained by an expert on the entire process first. 

rafael wrote:

Its not rocket science, but it does require care. Same goes for progressing to leading, especially trad. There are far too many people who die in completely preventable climbing accidents and anyone beginning to climb outside should approach it with the attention needed for rocket science. Unless you have zero care of your own health and your family (if you were to crater and die)

I would agree with you on lead climbing and TRAD.  For out door top rope coming from the gym, the only difference is the anchor set up.  If you go to a sport crag and hike to the top hanging 2 draws and rope is not hard. You should still take care and pay attention, but the concepts are not difficult.  From here the risk and process is the same as the gym top rope.  For cleaning just go back to the top and collect the gear then hike down.  As you progress in your ability you will meet people and be exposed to new information that you can then add to your skill set.  For some people classes and study may be required for hanging 2 draws and a rope for others this may not be needed. Maybe your area doesn't have sport and you will need to sling a rock and a tree or 2. Again I say asses your competence and understanding and make your own risk assessments. Most importantly check yourself and recheck yourself.

Most climbing deaths are due to a lack of attention to details not due to insufficient knowledge. Rappelling/lowering off the end of the rope happens to seasoned veterans all too often not because they didn't attend a class to teach them to tie a knot, but due to complacency.

Great information throughout this thread! Proud of the community for this one. Don't be hesitant to get professional or experienced help with learning the techniques outside. Keep clear communication and safety system checks at the forefront of your mind when climbing outside. I develop new sport routes outside and am often top rope soloing by myself out in the wilderness with noone for miles around me, so you could say i'm pretty comfortable with my systems. That said, i know climbers who climb a full number grade harder than me who i would not let belay me on lead ever due to their inattentiveness. Know all parts of your system and always make the choice that will insure you not become a statistic.

Here in MD the closest sport crag that isn't an old quarry (choss) is a six hour drive. Anchors at the local areas are very rarely built on bolts. It's almost all slung trees, and almost all need to be extended, so i would not call it trivial in terms of toprope anchor building. You need to know knots for properly wrangling trees, understand how to affix different soft goods together, and understand the effects of the angles created between the different parts of your anchor.

It's not rocket science but it's also a lot more than clipping two bolts. No need to be intimidated but yes, there are things you need to know. The proof is in all the janky ass shit i've seen at carderock. 

Started climbing almost 5 months ago. Learned almost everything from the internet (youtube/articles/forums). Been leading trad for a couple months now and I'm not dead...yet.... Just my 2 cents.

It's 2019, you can learn how to crack climb from Tom Randall and Pete Whitakker for free. lol

Top roping is scary yer gonna die!

Leron wrote: From reading the post above, I would think top rope climbs might as well be rocket science. Study, take classes, have a mentor, ect.....   I don't think it is all that hard.

Nobody said the skills were hard.  But the consequences for making a mistake are catastrophic.   If you try to learn by trial-and-error there's a high chance of winding up dead which is the reasons you find qualified instruction.

Skydiving is extremely simple.  Jump, pull cord, steer towards DZ.  But you wouldn't recommend that someone try this for the first time on their own would you?  Even if people were to get it right successfully 99/100 times with no supervision, that's still a lot of dead n00bs.

Gavin Towey wrote:

Nobody said the skills were hard.  But the consequences for making a mistake are catastrophic.   If you try to learn by trial-and-error there's a high chance of winding up dead which is the reasons you find qualified instruction.

Skydiving is extremely simple.  Jump, pull cord, steer towards DZ.  But you wouldn't recommend that someone try this for the first time on their own would you?  Even if people were to get it right successfully 99/100 times with no supervision, that's still a lot of dead n00bs.

Depending on the individual I either agree or disagree.  I think many people are capable of figuring out how to set up a top rope without going to a full blown class on the matter or reading multiple books. Reviewing the basics is sufficient. They will be able to walk to the top set up an anchor again especially at a sport crag with chains. They can then take care to weight the rope at the bottom double check themselves and climb safely. I honestly think the likelihood of screwing up is higher with many of the seasoned climbers I see at crags who have become complacent in their double checks.  

I am not saying new people with nonchalant attitudes are safe. Nor am I saying every top rope set up is the same and should be attempted by everyone.  I am saying top ropes can be a simple matter and the attitude and care given to follow the basics can be followed without a large amount of reading or class work. If you are just looking to get out for the first time I am recommending you review the basics of a simple top rope set up until you are comfortable and competent and then go and do it. Walk past the complicated set ups and go to the simple one.  

The amount of review needed will greatly depend on the individual so each person will need to make that determination for themselves. Some may need a class or several and a guide to help them as they gain experience. I have seen many just out of gym belay classes dropping people at the local gym. I have also seen it happen to belay instructors who just weren't paying attention. Many of the best belay partners I have are over 50 and have never attended a class on climbing. Their skill and care they give come from the approach and seriousness they bring to the activity.

If you're in MD, look into the Mountaineering Section of PATC ( potomacmountainclub.org/). They do a lot of informal top-roping and outdoor trips in MD, VA, WV, and PA, and they provide some classes to members (especially new climbers). Really great organization and if I were still living in that area I'd be a member.