Second Pullout Parking

Despite the addition of new signs prohibiting parking alongside the road before and after the second pullout, it doesn’t seem as if anyone has received citations for doing so. Has anyone heard of anyone being cited since they added them last fall?

Is your goal with this post to subvert the law and contribute to roadside erosion of our great natural resource?

John Wilder wrote:

Doubtful. There are 12 striped spaces in the second pullout and it is home to the Black Corridor, Gallery, Sweet Pain, and Magic Bus- arguably the 4 most popular sport crags in Red Rock. In addition, it is extremely popular to hike there and slack line in the area.

I haven’t heard of anyone getting a ticket there- probably because they’d have to ticket 100 or more cars at a time on any given weekend. I’ve heard rumors of an auxiliary parking lot up a ways and across the road going in at some point- I imagine once that happens, they may start enforcement.

Thanks, JW.

John Clark wrote: Is your goal with this post to subvert the law and contribute to roadside erosion of our great natural resource?

I’m talking about parking along an already paved road, troll. 

From 3rd pullout to Black corridor is 20ish minutes. I don't know how many it is from 2nd pullout but we as outdoors-people should try to follow the posted signage, and if it only costs us 5-15 more minutes of hiking in one of the coolest outdoor spaces in America, it seems like a cheap price. Let's strive to be upright users of the space, and criticize those who are not.  Whether we will or won't get away with it should be irrelevant, let's keep enforcement a last resort in Red Rock and try to self-police when possible

Rprops wrote: From 3rd pullout to Black corridor is 20ish minutes. I don't know how many it is from 2nd pullout but we as outdoors-people should try to follow the posted signage, and if it only costs us 5-15 more minutes of hiking in one of the coolest outdoor spaces in America, it seems like a cheap price. Let's strive to be upright users of the space, and criticize those who are not.  Whether we will or won't get away with it should be irrelevant, let's keep enforcement a last resort in Red Rock and try to self-police when possible

This isn’t about self policing in terms of impact on the environment such as leaving micro trash or braiding trails. These signs are a slap in the face to climbers. It’s about questioning the BLMs lack of ability to plan for the obvious influx of a increasing amount of visitors each year, instead hoping to generate more revenue by placing needless “No Parking “signs where there never were any before. Criticize those who oppose your view of what constitutes an “upright user of the space?” How upstanding and exemplary of you. 

Brendan Koch wrote:

This isn’t about self policing in terms of impact on the environment such as leaving micro trash or braiding trails. These signs are a slap in the face to climbers. It’s about questioning the BLMs lack of ability to plan for the obvious influx of a increasing amount of visitors each year, instead hoping to generate more revenue by placing needless “No Parking “signs where there never were any before. Criticize those who oppose your view of what constitutes an “upright user of the space?” How upstanding and exemplary of you. 

How would you go about accommodating an increasing influx? More facilities? More parking lots? A wider road to park on? Yeah, I agree that it sucks and I am probably going to have to hike extra miles during my new years trip to red rock, but I'd rather sweat more walking a bit further than see more parking lots in the desert. I'd probably assume that the shoulder you parked on wasn't originally meant for parking.

An interesting contrast is Ocean Drive in Acadia National Park. Immensely scenic and justifiably popular, as well as providing access to the major climbing areas on the island, it was experiencing exponential growth. The NPS eventually decided to make it a one way loop. However, when they did that, they also allowed parking in the entire right lane of the 20 or so mile loop. This in addition to the established parking lots at the major attractions.

John Clark wrote:

How would you go about accommodating an increasing influx? More facilities? More parking lots? A wider road to park on?

Restrict entry when the loop road is at capacity. Or hand out birth control. Or both.

About a year ago I had carpooled with a friend and we parked at the second pullout. There was almost a full space at the corner and she parked with one of the tires slightly sticking out onto the road, but the other 3 were within the parking lot. When we got back from climbing she had a parking ticket (I think it was for $140). I have not heard of anyone else ever receiving a ticket, but it does apparently happen sporadically. 

Brendan Koch wrote:

Criticize those who oppose your view of what constitutes an “upright user of the space?” How upstanding and exemplary of you. 

I'm critical of the people who are acting inappropriately in my view, (arguably out of laziness, lack of foresight, entitlement) not those who disagree with me and still, while grumbling, park at first pullout and walk the 1/5th mile to 2nd pullout.  

There's no personal attacks against you here. Nothing in your post indicated you even want to park there. When my friends do these kinds of things I call them out for being lazy and entitled too. It's the action I hate, not the people.   

 The 3rd pullout is sizeable, the first is huge.  Get there early, park at 2.  Get there late, park at 1. Wanna gamble? Drive to 2, and continue to 3 if it's full.   Never seen 2nd pullout full at 7.30

John Clark wrote:

How would you go about accommodating an increasing influx? More facilities? More parking lots? A wider road to park on? Yeah, I agree that it sucks and I am probably going to have to hike extra miles during my new years trip to red rock, but I'd rather sweat more walking a bit further than see more parking lots in the desert. I'd probably assume that the shoulder you parked on wasn't originally meant for parking.

Two of the first three parking lots were enlarged recently, actually, although the third pullout inadequately so, in my opinion. The second pullout was omitted, for whatever reason. Where I inquired about is literally on the paved road, not a rocky shoulder, as you may have imagined. So, where I was discussing is perfectly suitable and appropriate for parking. Pretty sure the desert upon which the paved scenic loop wasn’t meant for driving. I would prefer there to be less traffic, less visitors, less paved roads, less climbers, but simply wishing it to be so is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing. I would gladly hike in, as Joe Herbst did 40 years ago if it would preserve the wildness of the place, but, sadly, it’s going in the other direction. So, instead of taking the head-in-the-sand approach, since there will be more visitors, whether we like it or not, solutions are necessary. I was not attempting to subvert the law for the hell of it, rather, I was simply wondering if these signs are the equivalent of an empty cop car parked under a bridge to deter speeders, or if they were actually enforcing. Perhaps refraining from geotagging everywhere you’ve climbed or spraying when you get “sendy” on instagram might reduce the amount of people coming to these places you love, necessitating the new infrastructure that you bemoan. Ever make that connection?

John Clark wrote:

How would you go about accommodating an increasing influx? More facilities? More parking lots? A wider road to park on? Yeah, I agree that it sucks and I am probably going to have to hike extra miles during my new years trip to red rock, but I'd rather sweat more walking a bit further than see more parking lots in the desert. I'd probably assume that the shoulder you parked on wasn't originally meant for parking.

You seem very concerned.  Perhaps you should just bike in from town.  Oh and since you are concerned about the environment you probably shouldn't fly to Vegas or drive there.  You should just walk or bike directly from your house.

Brendan Koch wrote:

Two of the first three parking lots were enlarged recently, actually, although the third pullout inadequately so, in my opinion. The second pullout was omitted, for whatever reason. Where I inquired about is literally on the paved road, not a rocky shoulder, as you may have imagined. So, where I was discussing is perfectly suitable and appropriate for parking. Pretty sure the desert upon which the paved scenic loop wasn’t meant for driving. I would prefer there to be less traffic, less visitors, less paved roads, less climbers, but simply wishing it to be so is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing. I would gladly hike in, as Joe Herbst did 40 years ago if it would preserve the wildness of the place, but, sadly, it’s going in the other direction. So, instead of taking the head-in-the-sand approach, since there will be more visitors, whether we like it or not, solutions are necessary. I was not attempting to subvert the law for the hell of it, rather, I was simply wondering if these signs are the equivalent of an empty cop car parked under a bridge to deter speeders, or if they were actually enforcing. Perhaps refraining from geotagging everywhere you’ve climbed or spraying when you get “sendy” on instagram might reduce the amount of people coming to these places you love, necessitating the new infrastructure that you bemoan. Ever make that connection?

Touche

Ban private cars.  Foot traffic, bicycles and shuttle buses.

Marc801 C wrote: An interesting contrast is Ocean Drive in Acadia National Park. Immensely scenic and justifiably popular, as well as providing access to the major climbing areas on the island, it was experiencing exponential growth. The NPS eventually decided to make it a one way loop. However, when they did that, they also allowed parking in the entire right lane of the 20 or so mile loop. This in addition to the established parking lots at the major attractions.

That's not really working though - trying to drive the Park Loop and the Cadillac summit roads during high season is a night mare.  The Park Service is currently looking at a number of options that wold implement much more restrictive policies on private cars.  Of course with the current political environment its not likely anything will happen soon.

Just as a point of reference, the recently expanded third pull-out, ie., Sandstone Quarry, is getting completely full as well, leading to a lot of vehicles parking out along the loop road. So the suggestion to park at pullout #3 in order to approach the climbing near the second pull-out is a pretty risky one and may not work.

John Hegyes wrote: Just as a point of reference, the recently expanded third pull-out, ie., Sandstone Quarry, is getting completely full as well, leading to a lot of vehicles parking out along the loop road. So the suggestion to park at pullout #3 in order to approach the climbing near the second pull-out is a pretty risky one and may not work.

I think they added about 14 new spaces when they rebuilt that lot.  

Eric Engberg wrote:

That's not really working though - trying to drive the Park Loop and the Cadillac summit roads during high season is a night mare.  The Park Service is currently looking at a number of options that wold implement much more restrictive policies on private cars.  Of course with the current political environment its not likely anything will happen soon.

Park Service?  Since when did NPS take over Red Rock?

Weston L wrote:

Park Service?  Since when did NPS take over Red Rock?

Shhh... We’re talking about Acadia National Park now - we just don’t know it yet.