Best AT Boot For Climbing and Skiing

Got a pair of atomic backlands last year and while they don't ski great I couldn't be happier with how they climb. For WI4, and maybe WI5 (I'm a WI4ish climber) they climb as well as my phantom techs. Haven't had the chance to do much mixed in them, but expect they'd be fine there too as long as you're not getting too high up in the grades.

I picked this boot over the TLT6, TLT7 and arcteryx boot because it fit best. No other reason. Fit is wider than a TLT6 in some places (it's a bit subtle), but not as wide as a TLT7. Out of the box, they strike me as TLT6 clones though, and one of my partners climbs in TLT6s neck in neck with me. I modified the boot setup with an medium thickness intuition pro tour liner one size below shell size, and substituted the stock rigid tongue for the "soft" tongue ( skimo.co/atomic-backland-to…). The liner is stiffer than the stock liner but more importantly bumps up the warmth to noticeably more than a supergaiter boot (but less than my Spantiks), which is adequate for the coldest days in Hyalite, and I expect would be equally at home in Canada or winter climbing in the Alps. As for the tongue, without any tongue there is so much mobility I felt it wasn't supportive enough (way less support than even a very soft climbing boot like the phantom techs), but with the stock tongue in place it lacks enough mobility to climb well. The soft tongue strikes a good middle ground.

As an incidental bonus I found I the soft tongue also struck the right middle ground while touring for both uphill and down, so now I save time on transitions and never take the tongue out.

Based on my experience with these I suspect the TLT series would climb just as well, although the TLT6 may need a tongue swap of its own (they apparently also have an aftermarket soft tongue available).

As far as skiing is concerned, performance is mediocre. I have very light skis (entire setup is in the ~7lb range) that are a bit on the short side (I'm 6', skis are 173cm), so relatively good for skiing a soft boot. Boots are sized and oriented for climbing though, and I'm pretty happy with this setup, but do be careful if you ski a heavy setup or have an aggressive style.

Edit (Feb 27, 2019):

I've gotten some more experience climbing in the Backland since my post on Jul 2. I've mixed climbed near my modest limit (M4) with only minor issues. It's been hard to keep quiet feet. Because of the stiff cuff, it's hard to shift my center of gravity without my feet moving somewhat too, meaning that monopoints gain an even greater advantage since dual points tend to lever themselves off holds if you can't keep your feet quiet. I think I could push my mixed climbing in them a bit further though.

I've also used them in some very cold conditions (-15F, 3500m in the Alps in January) and a lightweight ski boot + an Intuition Pro Tour liner has possibly a 20F warmth advantage over a supergaiter boot. The margin is larger than you might expect in part because it's trivial to buckle and unbuckle the forefoot on ski boots at belays, allowing blood to periodically recirculate freely in a way that wouldn't be possible with mountaineering boots, and expanding wiggle room.

anyone want to open this back up? blew out my old boots which were actually atomic waymaker 130's, hackifyd to 3 buckles w/ intuition liner weighed in at 1550g fit wellish for my 6th toe with heel shim, toe punch and a grind but ski'd good climbed good enough and got 300 or so days looking for a similar boot, longetitvity being key. As a shit skier like a boot that skied better than climbed, but wasn't kluncky if that makes sense? the salamon qst120 fit me great but r mega heavy. Anybody got time in the fischer free 130, tech zero g's dynafit hoji or atomic hawx utd 120? 

HBTHREE wrote: anyone want to open this back up? blew out my old boots which were actually atomic waymaker 130's, hackifyd to 3 buckles w/ intuition liner weighed in at 1550g fit wellish for my 6th toe with heel shim, toe punch and a grind but ski'd good climbed good enough and got 300 or so days looking for a similar boot, longetitvity being key. As a shit skier like a boot that skied better than climbed, but wasn't kluncky if that makes sense? the salamon qst120 fit me great but r mega heavy. Anybody got time in the fischer free 130, tech zero g's dynafit hoji or atomic hawx utd 120? 

I dont believe any of the boots you mentioned will climb well. I've found that the lighter boots climb better. My dynafit dynaevo boots (710g) climb a LOT better than my tlt6's. If you're  after skiing performance I've heard good things about the zero g?? Personally, I've never gone to a boot that heavy though, the tlt6 carbons with the black stiffening tough ski like a resort boot imo and tour well enough and climb well enough. They can be had for relatively cheap now on the used market. 

Thanks for the input looking to go wtr w/ tech fittings, it'll be a 50/50 boot for all my ski's. I don't mind the weight climbing, touring def but my tours are generally short with a few long days and overnights. 

I've had climbing partners follow on the terrain I've lead in Scarpa Maestrales, which seem like a stiffer/burlier boot that would still be suitable for easy scrambling at the least.

I can sympathize with your skiing abilities, and also appreciate a stiff boot on the down. Case in point, I also have a pair of Scarpa Freedom SL that I got to fill in the quiver in the stiffer range for more skiing rather than climbing oriented applications. That said, I've found boots like the Atomic Backland to be good enough on the down in the backcountry, and so far the Freedom SLs have only seen resort use. If you haven't skied a boot like this (i.e. backland, TLT6 or similar), it's worth a try. Might fit the bill.

Also updated my Jul 2 post with additional details based on this season's experiences.

  i have ski'd and climbed in most of those boots, not the backlands but i'm going walk to ride or grip walk soles with tech inserts to accommodate all my ski's, even my beer league racers. I'll use em for pre chair ice cragging to wi4/5 as well as some touring, boot packing, and scrambling. The new free ride AT boots fit this nitch for me fairly well, 1300-1500g a boot ice climb good, ski good, and can tour. swappable soles gives me 300-400 hard days out of a pair of boots. prob going with the fischer free 130's read some shit reviews of the zero g's

I started this forum and Id love to talk boots. I ended up going with the Scarpa F1. I haven't been happier, it's a fantastic boot supper comfy. I also use it for ski mo races too. Its a great one quiver light weight boot.

I have lead WI3+/4- in Arcteryx Proclines. They work. You lose a bit of "feel" in the ice/crampon contact, as well as the ankle mobility for precise front pointing and stemming, but they work. Definitley about a grade lower than I would lead in real mountain boots. For skiing into a alpine style climb that is within your grade range, they are incredible. For real vertical ice like 4++ into the WI 5 range, I would want something more mobile, lighter, and better feel. Of course, my approach is an abundance of caution. I bet the old hardmen would laugh at us considering the shit they climbed with back in the day.

I have been touring more in my Dynafit speedfits - they are pretty much the same as the TLT6. The range of motion and walk mode are noticeably worse than the proclines. The proclines feel like running shoes. the speedfits feel like really good AT boots. The speedfits are also stiffer and have a bigger lip on the front which makes my connection to my splitboard more secure. I have been using the proclines for skimo type stuff where the uphill, walkmode, and climbing ability are more important than the downhill. the Speedfits are my AT boot for actual touring, where the downhill is the focus. Both boots are incredible at what they were designed for. 

vermaine wrote: I have lead WI3+/4- in Arcteryx Proclines. They work. You lose a bit of "feel" in the ice/crampon contact, as well as the ankle mobility for precise front pointing and stemming, but they work. Definitley about a grade lower than I would lead in real mountain boots. For skiing into a alpine style climb that is within your grade range, they are incredible. For real vertical ice like 4++ into the WI 5 range, I would want something more mobile, lighter, and better feel. Of course, my approach is an abundance of caution. I bet the old hardmen would laugh at us considering the shit they climbed with back in the day.

I have been touring more in my Dynafit speedfits - they are pretty much the same as the TLT6. The range of motion and walk mode are noticeably worse than the proclines. The proclines feel like running shoes. the speedfits feel like really good AT boots. The speedfits are also stiffer and have a bigger lip on the front which makes my connection to my splitboard more secure. I have been using the proclines for skimo type stuff where the uphill, walkmode, and climbing ability are more important than the downhill. the Speedfits are my AT boot for actual touring, where the downhill is the focus. Both boots are incredible at what they were designed for. 

Re: Speedfits - They're most definitely softer than the TLT6 and both softer and heavier than the TLT7 performance so I don't see why you'd have those and the Proclines. If you're downhill focused boot is a 90-100 flex and heavier than stiffer and lighter weight boots out there then I'd reconsider what you's consider a downhill focused boot. I think MTN Lab, Hoji, Maestrale RS is more in that category but to each their own.

I hardboot splitboard predominantly, so what I need out of a AT boot is rather unique compared to a skier. I think. I will say that the proclines walk better than any other AT I have tried on. They also climb better. They also are softer than than the speedfits in downhill mode, which is why I consider the speedfits my downhill focused boot. I know skiers are all about a stiffer boot for the down, but the really good skiers I ride with can ski pretty much any boot, and the shit people have skied with a TLT is pretty unreal. I'm sure the Hoji and Maestrale are beefier and more freeride focused, but they are a different class of boot. I would not split in them...

I got ya. Sorry I missed the splitboard part and assumed you were skiing due to the title of the post. Completely agree regarding good skiers being able to ski a boot regardless of how stiff it is. Personally I'm in the TLT7P and love it because it's just stiff enough but climbs really well. Just stuck a new Intuition Tour Wrap Liner which made it just a tad stiffer on the down and I'm pretty happy with the boot overall.

That sharknose is pretty cool looking, but unfortunately, the lack of front welt makes my mountain plate style binding set up unworkable. the procline lip is very small as well, which is a bit scary when you look at the margin for error/movement there. have you found the crampon adapter thingy works well? or do you use a front basket style pon?

I wish them F1's fit my high arch and narrow heels it'd be nice for a quiver boot next to some real ski boots ;)  i like the new tlt7's too with that widened toe box (the 6"s didnt fit my 6th toe disease well at all) but my partners pon adapter got all capital F'd up last yr mid ptch and ive heard similar stories with the pon sliding up making some insecure short front points, steep vert ice mind you not what it's really intended for but thats what i'd be looking to do to em. Great skimo boot tho, but i'm getting old and any of the lighter boots i get shin splints and quad burn after 20,000' feet of lift served my goal being 40,000.  i ski'd and short tour'd the atomic xtd 130 last week and it was real nice. 1400g a boot ( frank'd down to 1100 ish with a diff liner) and should fit my grivel g22's fairly well i'll repost how they climb ice and scrambled if i buy

sooooo lets talk binding's!! any other skimo tards rocking the plum race 170's??? or any other racey heels?

HBTHREE wrote: sooooo lets talk binding's!! any other skimo tards rocking the plum race 170's??? or any other racey heels?

Summary: 

TLT Speed. Overall 2/5 stars due to poor retention, seemingly in the toe piece. Good for casual backcountry touring. Bad for ski mountaineering due to prerelease issues seemingly at the toe. I'm a 175lb, intermediate (not aggressive) skier, skiing soft boots and lightweight skis, with lateral heel DINs set to 8. Bindings have a fixed vertical release at the heel, supposedly a 9. Official toe DIN equivalent unknown.

Details:
Had it prerelease on hard icy snow a couple of times. In one case I'm certain it was the toe piece that failed because I saw it happen. In the other instances I don't know because I was caught completely by surprise. I've always done my due diligence to deice my boot and bindings by clicking my binding open and closed to remove ice from the toe piece and by swinging my ski back and forth after clicking into the toe piece to deice my boot's toe pin holes. Prereleases have happened once while turning aggressively on icy resort hard pack, but also while cautiously making an icy traverse above an icefall/crevasse field on the Vallee Blanche, which despite the hazard in this case is by nowhere near the kind of run where you'd think to lock your toes to stay safe. In both cases prerelease happened after some time (>1hr) of skiing without issue since last clicking in, and it seems unlikely that bindings or binding/boot interface were iced up. In both cases prerelease happened on terrain that was icier than what I had been skiing up to that point in the day.

In the icefall situation I don't know if I lost an edge first or if the boot torqued out of the binding first. Either way, both skis came off my feet and it was too icy to regain traction with only naked boots and no edges. I had to arrest on a whippet to save myself and thankfully my skis were on leashes or I'd have lost those too (I'd deviated from the normal route, and was traversing to the Requin hut, which involves a short section where this kind of fall is possible). Neither leashes nor whippets are standard fare for skiers on this route, and while ice axes are standard most ski with them on their packs, not in hand where they can arrest a fall. Maybe I'm an idiot and it's my own fault for not having locked my toes, or for accidentally rather than deliberately being in a position to self arrest (criticism is welcome if you believe so), but with my limited experience this scenario strikes me as one where the equipment design is at fault, similar to a crampon breaking, and where I'm lucky to have been in a position to compensate for it.

For my next skis I may swap in a different toe piece (one with 6 springs instead of 4) and continue using the TLT speed heel piece or I might go in the opposite direction, resign myself to unreliable release settings and go full race binding. Either way, I do not see a place in my ski mountaineering quiver that is well served by the TLT Speed as sold.

HBTHREE wrote: sooooo lets talk binding's!! any other skimo tards rocking the plum race 170's??? or any other racey heels?

I just got the ATK Trofeo Plus. Lightest binding I could find with a flat mode and 2 riser heights. It's also sold as the BD Helio 180. I haven't skied them yet but my buddy has been on them all season and they've been great.

Them atk's are sick I have the plum race 170's on dynafit manaslu/sickday 102 they're great awfully tough to turn them  rise/flat A+ otherwise. Bogdan u might have a bad binding or mount? The speeds are fairly popular and I haven't heard many horror stories like that I've toured on them and thrashed em resort side myself

Charles u make it up to Backcountry fest NH this wknd?

On the topic of general skimo gear, the Arva Plume shovel is sweet. Carbon fiber shaft, full sized aluminum blade, <14oz, competitively priced.

Pack ideas would also be nice. I've got a BD Cirque 35, and although it has some nice features it doesn't carry well. The waist strap doesn't strip down either, which is a pain with a harness.

Bogdan P wrote: On the topic of general skimo gear, the Arva Plume shovel is sweet. Carbon fiber shaft, full sized aluminum blade, <14oz, competitively priced.

Pack ideas would also be nice. I've got a BD Cirque 35, and although it has some nice features it doesn't carry well. The waist strap doesn't strip down either, which is a pain with a harness.

I'm not a skimo'er, but the Osprey Mutant series has served me well for general backpacking / climbing / relaxed "ski touring" use. The 38 is beautifully simple and strips down easily, and the rope and helmet carry system is genius.