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Guide mode off belay loop

Ryan M Moore · · Philadelphia, PA · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 35

Thread officially resolved.

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Thinking about this idea makes my stomach turn.  So bad.

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916
climbing coastie wrote:

I didn't read all the responses so please forgive me if this was already said, but why not tie a loop in the rope coming from the anchor, clip into this, and also clip the ATC to it in guide mode. It removes you from the system, places you as close to the edge as you want, and makes the possibility of a lower (or raise) easier. 

You didn't bother to read a SINGLE PAGE of responses, let alone the fact that the post RIGHT ABOVE your post LITERALLY quotes the exact thing you suggest?

climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 95
kevin deweese wrote:

You didn't bother to read a SINGLE PAGE of responses, let alone the fact that the post RIGHT ABOVE your post LITERALLY quotes the exact thing you suggest?

Obviously you can't read as my first sentence states I didn't read every post, so THAT implies the apparent post above mine. 

And aparently you can't follow rule #1: don't be a dick, so we'll call it even. 

Marty C · · Herndon, VA · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 70

Where I agree that using Guide mode off your belay loop is not the best idea/technique, there are some scenarios where it can be beneficial.

In their new book, "The Montainguide Manual", Marc Chauvin and Rob Coppolillo describe a scenario on pages 287-288 (assisting a climber at the crux) where they belay off their belay loop in guide mode.

The probability of this scenario occurring is small, but it does call for using Guide mode off the belay loop.

To summarize:

On a multi-pitch climb, 2nd is stuck at the crux.

Rather than trying to assist/haul him pass the crux (3:1 haul),the belayer decides to counter balance rappel down to 2nd to talk him through the crux. Not pressed for time, both agree that the 2nd. wants to climb the crux, rather than be rescued/assisted.

At the crux, the rappeller converts his rappel device to guide mode by clipping the "nose" of the device to his belay loop. At this point it is a top rope belay, belaying through guide mode (in guide mode the device would "lock up" effectively closing the system). On the short distance to get through the crux, the additional friction of pulling the rope through guide mode is an acceptable tradeoff to get a closed system.

After the 2nd pulls the crux, the belayer puts a foot Prussic above the guide mode device and ascends back to anchor and puts 2nd. back into normal belay mode to finish the pitch.

Where this seems like a guide/client technique only, it can/may prove to be a useful tool/technique for the recreational trad climber as well.

GTS · · SoCal · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 0
Marty C wrote:

Where this seems like a guide/client technique only, it can/may prove to be a useful tool/technique for the recreational trad climber as well.

In the hands of most recreational climbers, this seems like the perfect tool to create a clusterf#@$ at best, and get someone hurt/killed at worst.

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Marty C, that's a cool example you found.   I love all those guide-tricks.   Thanks for sharing.   (Agree though, it sounds extraordinarily advanced!)

Jim Dover · · Idyllwild, CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 155

Never tried it but I see no point.  Two solutions: get a GriGri--problem solved; extend the masterpoint back to the point from which you want to belay and then clip the ATC guide to the extended masterpoint after adjusting yourself to the right distance from the new masterpoint.  

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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