WTF is fourth class, and how/should you protect it?

Jim Titt wrote:

The ropes just slide down into the vee grooves, can´t see how you could realistically keep them out, maybe doing something wierd rapping you could manage to hold them out but otherwise the plate just twists into the correct orientation. If you could keep them out then I guess it´s just going to be maybe a bit better than an ATC but twist the rope to hell.

Jim, what I have noticed, is with brake hand back at all, when a little slack on the climbers side lets the ATC drop down, the device essentially "falls" off the brake side of the rope, and then slides along the top edge as that slack gets pulled up or out. 

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks! Helen

Anything ever come of your prototype belay device? It looked to outperform most of the market. Well, if memory serves, the Munter did also. Hard to market that, though!

Hobo Greg wrote:

Just don't fall.

Actually, just do it, is better. Focus on "don't" kinda messes your head up.

I've had three or four times already, when I simply had to get it done, because if I didn't...

That's the quiet pause just before, switching from can't to will.

I'd still much prefer to mitigate serious risk when it's reasonable, and, I hope I will have the sense and guts to back out if anyone ever pushes me when they shouldn't. That's a really tough call for a lot of us, I'm guessing, not just noobs.

Best, OLH

Old lady H wrote:

Jim, what I have noticed, is with brake hand back at all, when a little slack on the climbers side lets the ATC drop down, the device essentially "falls" off the brake side of the rope, and then slides along the top edge as that slack gets pulled up or out. 

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks! Helen

Anything ever come of your prototype belay device? It looked to outperform most of the market. Well, if memory serves, the Munter did also. Hard to market that, though!

Don´t worry, when the load comes on from both sides it will sort itself out. 

That prototype was the most powerful "normal" device ever made by far but the marketing guys decided a guide-plate type was going to be a better seller, it´ll probably sit on the shelf until the fashion for guide mode dissapears. We did discuss making a thin-rope version last year so maybe I ought to look at it again one day.

That you call it the Munter shows the ,marketing worked, the original Munter Hitch looks nothing like that and was horrific, severely injuring him during a demonstration. The belaying method with a karabiner was introduced to the UIAA by the Italians and despite the UIAA trying to claim it as the "UIAA Knot" the rest of Europe knows it as an Italian Hitch (the Germans just call it what it is instead, a half-clove hitch). Werner Munter did much to promote the Italian Hitch outside of Europe which is why you call it the Munter. Incidentally, even though many have the impression this is all stuff from pre-history Werner Munter is still alive and kicking and only recently retired from avalanche reasearch, he´s one of the worlds authorities on avalanches.

Jim Titt wrote:

Don´t worry, when the load comes on from both sides it will sort itself out. 

That prototype was the most powerful "normal" device ever made by far but the marketing guys decided a guide-plate type was going to be a better seller, it´ll probably sit on the shelf until the fashion for guide mode dissapears. We did discuss making a thin-rope version last year so maybe I ought to look at it again one day.

That you call it the Munter shows the ,marketing worked, the original Munter Hitch looks nothing like that and was horrific, severely injuring him during a demonstration. The belaying method with a karabiner was introduced to the UIAA by the Italians and despite the UIAA trying to claim it as the "UIAA Knot" the rest of Europe knows it as an Italian Hitch (the Germans just call it what it is instead, a half-clove hitch). Werner Munter did much to promote the Italian Hitch outside of Europe which is why you call it the Munter. Incidentally, even though many have the impression this is all stuff from pre-history Werner Munter is still alive and kicking and only recently retired from avalanche reasearch, he´s one of the worlds authorities on avalanches.

Wow! Thanks, sir, for the history.

The last reminds me of decades ago, when an expert was coming for some sort of pollution related something, to an aluminum plant my dad and brother both worked at.

Both were very excited, and my brother brought aviation book(s) he had. 

Which are now signed by Sikorsky. A bit better known for helicopters than scrubbers on stacks, I'm guessing.

Best, Helen