Adam Ondra: "Any climber with mediocre stregnth can climb at least V8 given perfect technique" Thoughts?

Lena chita wrote:

But NOT believing that you can is a 100% surefire way to NOT achieve it.

Generally speaking that may be the case but I have really surprised myself a number of times by climbing problems and/or sticking moves that I thought I had absolutely no chance at.

^^^^^

Believing is not necessary, but trying (hard) is a must for success.

Didn't Emily Harrington (I think?) say something like this a few years ago? Something along the lines of "any climber of average fitness, can climb 12 off the couch, if they have excellent technique".

Here's to being weak af AND having terrible technique!

Sam Sala wrote:

Didn't Emily Harrington (I think?) say something like this a few years ago? Something along the lines of "any climber of average fitness, can climb 12 off the couch, if they have excellent technique".

I've heard her describe that about herself; I've not heard her generalize it to all climbers.

Sam Sala wrote:

Didn't Emily Harrington (I think?) say something like this a few years ago? Something along the lines of "any climber of average fitness, can climb 12 off the couch, if they have excellent technique".

Here's to being weak af AND having terrible technique!

She's said something along the lines of - I will always be able to climb 5.12. Watched her onsight chainsaw in the red last week - seems accurate

Jon Frisby wrote:

She's said something along the lines of - I will always be able to climb 5.12. Watched her onsight chainsaw in the red last week - seems accurate

It totally makes sense though. Take couple number grades off your best redpoint, and I am sure it is the grade you can climb quite easily even after not climbing for a while.

Christian wrote:

LOL! No, of course not ONLY.

I think the concept is on point but a V8 is way off. I can out-climb stronger friends of mine who have poor technique and try to muscle through everything. but his idea that mediocre strength can get you up a V8 is distorted. its based on his upper limit of abilities. He thinks a V8 is easy because he can crush a V15. When 5.10 was at my limit I thought 5.7 was easy. now pushing 5.11's I feel like 5.8-5.9 is easy, its all perspective. but from the point of view that technique will carry you far in climbing, that I agree with!

Kurt G. wrote:

I think the concept is on point but a V8 is way off. I can out-climb stronger friends of mine who have poor technique and try to muscle through everything. but his idea that mediocre strength can get you up a V8 is distorted. its based on his upper limit of abilities. He thinks a V8 is easy because he can crush a V15. When 5.10 was at my limit I thought 5.7 was easy. now pushing 5.11's I feel like 5.8-5.9 is easy, its all perspective. but from the point of view that technique will carry you far in climbing, that I agree with!

 I think we are talking about different things. Possible outcome, vs realized outcome.

Most people never get even close to their possible outcome. But that doesn't mean that the outcome isn't possible, or even likely, given a change in circumstances.

If I weighed 120 pounds I could climb V8 with mediocre strength and perfect technique.

Anyone with a positive ape index, big hands, above average physical shape (average person at least in the US is fat), and perfect technique, can probably climb V8.

Now lets go to the average climber who is still probably overweight, if they are like me have tiny hands it makes anything with pitches / sloppers really hard and require above average strength to hold onto, I have a negative ape index that has made more than one route I have climbed force me to use extra moves than the normal beta and requires alot more effort.... so it isn't any climber and it isn't any route. As with everything it depends on the person and the route. 

Find the right route with a climbing style that fits the person physically and they have perfect technique in the style than sure with a little work they probably can do it. 

That isn't any climber though. All you need is that V8 route with that single move in the middle that a tall person can reach past (yes I have had this happen with people I was climbing with outside) and even though the route is labeled V8 they are skipping the V8 move that the average climber has to do and are no longer doing a "V8"

ViperScale wrote:

That isn't any climber though. All you need is that V8 route with that single move in the middle that a tall person can reach past (yes I have had this happen with people I was climbing with outside) and even though the route is labeled V8 they are skipping the V8 move that the average climber has to do and are no longer doing a "V8"

Throw gumby in dihedral or on a smaller width compression problem and watch em squirm though. Different routes/problems will also suit different body types. Also on average the "strong" climbers tend to be a bit shorter than most people expect (Ondra is far on the tall end).

Nick Drake wrote:

Throw gumby in dihedral or on a smaller width compression problem and watch em squirm though. 

Can confirm. Source: I'm 6'-2" and also a gumby.

Nick Drake wrote:

Throw gumby in dihedral or on a smaller width compression problem and watch em squirm though. Different routes/problems will also suit different body types. Also on average the "strong" climbers tend to be a bit shorter than most people expect (Ondra is far on the tall end).

Not all of them are tall but the ones I know personally have high ape index and are tall. Not sure how completely accurate this is but based on it alot of them seem to have high ape index overall. Lynn hill is probably the big exception because she is short and has 0 ape index. I also think she probably had an easier time on the great roof because her build is probably better for it... maybe even changing corners her small hands / smaller body helped her fit in better. She did rate the climber easier than those who came after her.

Looking at this chart is interesting because alot of them are be 5.7 or smaller but have 2-3 inch ape index. So maybe it is better to be short with high ape index so your body fits in better but longer reach and bigger hands help you balance and reach better.

Me personally 5.10 with -4 ape index and it sometimes helps me get into small hand holds but more times than not I end up having to use different beta on holds that make the climb hard to get through sections.

FWIW Tom Randall and Ollie Torr's research indicates no correlation between ape index and ability

Jon Frisby wrote:

FWIW Tom Randall and Ollie Torr's research indicates no correlation between ape index and ability

I don't recall seeing that data point.

Being tall helps, they say, in that taller climbers can reach the same grade with less finger strength and less fitness -but require greater core strength.

In Remus' discussion of their results, he explicitly states that they didn't control for ape index, but perhaps there is more info I haven't seen?

http://latticetraining.com/2017/08/10/height-in-climbing/

Who’s Adam Ondra??? Asking for a friend............  

Who’s Adam Ondra??? Asking for a friend............