How To Get Asked Out on a Second Date

Hey man, I just wanted to say I read the original post all the way through. No complaints. I would like to give you some proper congratulations, as I read way more comments afterwards that made me feel like my head was in a used toilet. And then I backed out of the topic and was like wait, I was in beginner climbers forum; how did I just feel like I didn't belong there? It also might be worth a read for some others. As others wrote resounding words of the "right attitude," think how I am I beginning climber and some of these replies to a thread in the beginner climbing section made me feel unwelcome. Just let that sink in. Either way, there is something little to be learned in everything for everyone. Thanks!

What is a PAS?

Russ Keane wrote:What is a PAS?

http://www.rei.com/product/825820/metolius-pas-22-personal-anchor-system

Russ Keane wrote:What is a PAS?

It's a venereal disease that some sport climbers get. In its later stages it can get infected, leading to a pusy PAS- not pretty.

caughtinside wrote: That's as far as I got, and I disagree with all of it. One of the biggest mistakes in my opinion is that new climbers carry way too much shit. Not only does it slow you down, but it makes climbing less enjoyable. If I'd been out with a person who had all that on them, and wanted to climb again, I would make it contingent on ditching all the crap. YMMV

I guess you wouldn't consider climbing with me then. I always have on my harness:

1 prusik cord
misc cord for footloop
small light wiregate to carry the above
personal tether (1" web tied into loop with double fishermans)
bail biner
mini-traxion (doesn't weight much and is extremely useful in any rescue scenario)
cord for tying in with mini-trax for TR solo
belay device
4 lockers (1 for belay, 1 for general usage, 1 for tether, and 1 for mini-trax

for multi-pitch add a sling or 2 around the shoulder for racking draws and cleaning gear. also some extra tat and biners for bail anchors

it definitely weighs more than having nothing but a belay device and locker, but, to me, its worth the weight if I ever have to self rescue. and, IMO, the mini-trax is worth its weight in gold if I ever have to self rescue

please tell me, though, that you keep at least 2 prusiks on harness. otherwise i might have trouble sleeping tonight ;)

Wasn't going to comment, but this one was too good to pass up:

matt c. wrote: It's a venereal disease that some sport climbers get.

+1 for a good laugh

caughtinside wrote: One of the biggest mistakes in my opinion is that new climbers carry way too much shit.

If other people carry too much shit, god bless them, have a ball, so long as it doesn't slow us down, or limit their ability to split the weight of the necessities. BUT, what I should say is (i'm guilty of this, I think many climbers are, especially new climbers) the 'buy an item for everything' mentality, is linked to bringing to much crap, is linked to use this 'X' item for 'X' scenario mentality, and limits climbers' ability to both understand how to use their gear with versatility, and preemptively plan to bring/ carry/ purchase gear with multiple applications in mind.

Examples off the top of my head:
Carrying an extra round stock biner or two in the case of a lost ATC
Considering racking biners as your 'loose biners'
Full strength rated gear sling as extra piece

I honestly don't understand carrying all that. Aside from pro (cams/nuts/draws/nut tool), I carry:

Reverso (on a locker)
Cordalette (on a locker, with two additional lockers attached)
Ropeman II and a prussic loop (on a locker)
2 shoulder length slings over my shoulder, each with a lightweight wiregate.

I really can't think of anything I might need to do that would require more than this gear.

Nick Sweeney wrote:I really can't think of anything I might need to do that would require more than this gear.

Very important, you have to remember to bring your v-thread tool on its own independent locker, that way you can stop and tell everyone you climb ice too.

This is a great thread for beginners like me. I've read the OP at least a few times now, and try to adhere to what Im reading when Im out climbing. Ive got some of the skills, but not all to be asked out on a second date :) Its exciting when theres so much to learn!

I will be living at the Gunks for some or most of this autumn, and Im very much into sharing my herbs and brews, as well as carrying all the heavy stuff. Anyone wanna take me up?

Tom Sherman wrote: Very important, you have to remember to bring your v-thread tool on its own independent locker, that way you can stop and tell everyone you climb ice too.

Haha, I tell everyone anyway!

Dan Africk wrote:And the importance of learning how to clean gear. I usually spend some time on the ground with a new partner, making sure they at least know the basics. I hate hearing a partner whale on every single nut and tricam with the nut tool, even the ones that you know were not set very hard and should slide right out!

Yeah, and be careful not to take the seemingly obvious for granted. My friend took out a gym climber friend for her first trad climb (an easy Flatiron) and spent a bit of time on the ground showing her how to clean nuts (sorry, can't figure out a way to say that without raising a certain visual). Anyway, a bit later he couldn't figure out what was taking her so long on the first pitch: turns out she was going after the cams with the nut tool!

Rocky_Mtn_High wrote: Yeah, and be careful not to take the seemingly obvious for granted. My friend took out a gym climber friend for her first trad climb (an easy Flatiron) and spent a bit of time on the ground showing her how to clean nuts (sorry, can't figure out a way to say that without raising a certain visual). Anyway, a bit later he couldn't figure out what was taking her so long on the first pitch: turns out she was going after the cams with the nut tool!

People who take beginners on long routes are a gift to the climbing community! I love finding shiny presents on the climbs.

Lots of very good points here, but it seems like this is a bit of a mix of "things to do as a newbie trad/multipitch second" and "things to aspire to as a newbie trad/multipitch second in order to some day become an efficient and competent team member". For example, as already has been pointed out, suggesting that someone who's never seen trad gear clip into a single piece while cleaning an anchor is iffy at best. Personally, if it's really their first time, I wouldn't even want them touching the anchor until they're on belay. Multi-pitch climbing is a lot of information to process as is; the last thing I want is for them to risk falling off the belay and pulling me down because they accidentally unclipped themselves in an effort to shave off a few seconds. If, however, this is presented more as "this is what an experienced second would do" type of advice, then I have no issue with it.

eli poss wrote: personal tether (1" web tied into loop with double fishermans)

I've never heard of a double fisherman's knot being used for flat webbing. Especially with 1" webbing, it's hard to picture the knot being well dressed and secure. It's entirely possible that this is okay and I just haven't heard of it, but as far as I know, the best way to tie 1" webbing into a loop is with a water knot or beer knot.

A sewn sling would be stronger and less bulky, and are dirt cheap especially if you get them in nylon, though I guess having some extra cheap webbing for a rap anchor is an advantage.

Dan Africk wrote: I've never heard of a double fisherman's knot being used for flat webbing. Especially with 1" webbing,

It was the recommended way of tying a permanent runner in the 1972 Chouinard Equipment catalog

climbaz.com/chouinard72/gra…

The double fisherman's is the appropriate knot for webbing that is likely, over a long period of time, to be subjected to intermittent loading. The tails on a water knot or ring bend slowly creep into the knot over time, and if the knot is not periodically checked and retied, there is a danger of the knot being undone when it has to perform. Meanwhile, there is nothing unstable about the double fishermans, and it can be "dressed" just as well as any other knot. The double fishermans also tests a little stronger than the ring bend, although I don't think the differences are even remotely significant.

The beer knot is by far the worst choice, since its tails creep but you can't see one of them and have to feel for where the it should be inside the tubular webbing to tell whether or not too much creep has occurred.

rgold wrote:The double fisherman's is the appropriate knot for webbing that is likely, over a long period of time, to be subjected to intermittent loading. The tails on a water knot or ring bend slowly creep into the knot over time, and if the knot is not periodically checked and retied, there is a danger of the knot being undone when it has to perform. Meanwhile, there is nothing unstable about the double fishermans, and it can be "dressed" just as well as any other knot. The double fishermans also tests a little stronger than the ring bend, although I don't think the differences are even remotely significant. The beer knot is by far the worst choice, since its tails creep but you can't see one of them and have to feel for where the it should be inside the tubular webbing to tell whether or not too much creep has occurred.

Lol, thread drift

A sewn sling would be stronger and less bulky, and are dirt cheap especially if you get them in nylon./quote>
actually 1" webbing tied with a double fishermans is stronger than a sewn sling and will absorb slightly more energy than a sewn sling. sewn slings are rated to 22kn whereas a single strand of 1" web is 22kn. take 22*2*.8 (2 for double strand, .8 for the knot) and you get 35.2kn. but the main reason i use 1" web is because its cheaper, more durable, and tied to the perfect length.

caughtinside wrote: ...I disagree with all of it. One of the biggest mistakes in my opinion is that new climbers carry way too much shit. Not only does it slow you down, but it makes climbing less enjoyable. If I'd been out with a person who had all that on them, and wanted to climb again, I would make it contingent on ditching all the crap. YMMV

YMMV is right. I do agree with you about certain beginners loading up with stuff they don't need (and in some cases don't know how to use), but not about what I've said. A PAS and three thin runners, two short prussik loops, and three lightweight lockers is awfully far from weighing anyone down. If that tiny amount of baggage slows a person down and ruins their enjoyment, then I think they have a more serious problem with climbing. They'll certainly never lead anything.

And while speaking of big new-climber mistakes, one could just as well argue, I think more convincingly, that an underequipped and unprepared second can slow things down and make things a hell of a lot less enjoyable than groaning under the crippling weight of three runners and three biners. For example, the 2015 Accidents in North American Mountaineering recounts an incident that required the tender mercies of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group when a rappeller rapped past a jammed end of their rope an got hung up in midair. This fellow was equipped with exactly nothing and so could not reascend the rope to correct his mistake. (He could have ascended with just the rope and no extra equipment, but didn't know how to do that either.) Up until he became a dumb stranded tourist hanging in midair in the dark, he was no doubt enjoying the incredible lightness of being fully unencumbered.

One of the goals of my original post was to suggest that a second who has left the rank beginner phase should have both the knowledge and a bare minimum of gear to get themselves out of the most likely types of trouble that folks have a way of not including in their climbing plans. This is one of things that makes a person the sort one wants to climb with again, rather than having to call in a rescue or go through complicated and dangerous processes to extract them from a jam they should have been able to deal with on their own.

Honestly, I doubt that there are many people out there whose climbing goals include being worthless baggage that needs to be rescued. But if you aspire to that ignominious fate, by all means ditch all the gear, fail to educate yourself, and just hope the shit never hits the fan. And if it does, don't be writin' Dear Rgold about why you can't get a second date!