Best way to quickly resling cams

I've got a few old-style BD cams (the kind without the thumb loop) that I bought used. I'd heard that this is a very old style, so I am concerned about the age of the slings on them. Eventually I'll send them into BD for a factory re-slinging, but in the meantime I'd like to do something to make them a little more safe.

I'm debating about whether to use some cordalette (7mm or thicker) with a double-fisherman's knot, or some webbing with a water knot for my temporary re-sling. I can't think of any other ways to do this off the top of my head, and I was wondering if anyone had input on what method would offer the most strength/safety.

Any input, be it technical data or personal experience/preference, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I've used 5.5 mm spectra on older Camalots knotted with a triple fishermans and tightened by attaching one end of the loop to a pullup bar and clipping a long runner to the other side then standing in the runner and bouncing. And yes I have fallen on cams that were reslung like this but never a real hard fall. The data I've seen on knot strength for 5.5mm spectra is that it's almost 4000 lbs with the triple fishermans so it's probably good enough.

I've got a couple of cams like that, they need to go in for new slings this winter. I cut the old slings off and simply threaded a 1 foot dyneema sling through the hole. I then clipped the racking 'biner through both ends. I'm very, very aware which cams these are, and you can never, ever, ever take either end of the sling out/off of the racking 'biner when you place the cam.

I don't see how Spectra cord would be any different on cams than it would be for slinging hexes or using it for a "Gunks tie-off" on rigid stem Friends. Definitely want to use a triple fishermans though.

Dan Felix wrote:I've got a couple of cams like that, they need to go in for new slings this winter. I cut the old slings off and simply threaded a 1 foot dyneema sling through the hole. I then clipped the racking 'biner through both ends. I'm very, very aware which cams these are, and you can never, ever, ever take either end of the sling out/off of the racking 'biner when you place the cam.

+1
I've done this for 2 of my cams, I just make sure my partner knows what's up before we start climbing

I put mine in a box, send them to wired bliss. They are usually back in a week. Pretty painless.

Bill Matlin wrote:I put mine in a box, send them to wired bliss. They are usually back in a week. Pretty painless.

I'm too close to Ragged Mountain to send mine off! I wanted those cams on the rack in the middle of the season when I got them and didn't want to take the time to drive up there. Now that climbing has slowed down I've got plenty of time to drop them off....

Umm. Truth be told, your slings are probably just fine. If the slings show minimal wear and minimal color fading, they are going to be far safer than anything you can tie. Remember, knots reduce strength by 30 to 70%. And knots can come untied.

I would bet large buckets of money your slings are good for fairly close to their rated strength. Or, at least, for more than you will need.

Nothing wrong with reslinging them but may not be necessary if they pass a visual inspection.

I'm surprised to hear that, Greg. I've been taught that most gear is perfectly fine if it passes visual inspection, with the exception being soft gear like webbing and rope, which should not be trusted if it's more than 5 years old.

Granted, these slings are only slightly fuzzy and have no obvious sun damage or anything, but I'd heard that they phased out this style of cam something on the order of 10 years ago...

So you're willing to bet buckets of money, but how about your life? That's what trusting these old slings means, quite literally.

I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to argue--I really am just searching for input here. It'd be great if you have any experiences with old gear that you could share. If you still say you'd trust 'em, I'll add one tick to the "don't resling" column.

Dan Felix wrote:I cut the old slings off and simply threaded a 1 foot dyneema sling through the hole. I then clipped the racking 'biner through both ends. I'm very, very aware which cams these are, and you can never, ever, ever take either end of the sling out/off of the racking 'biner when you place the cam.

Did the same with nylon slings. Added some tape to hold the loops in place so I don't have to worry so much about the racking 'biner. Top one is taped, bottom one not yet.

I like this idea, though one would have to be very careful while using it (though the tape would definitely make it more manageable).

Those of you who use this method--have you ever un-clipped one end of the sling and made it a girth hitch to extend your piece in a pinch? I'm thinking of something similar to what DMM does with their cams.

Scott Scharfenberg wrote:Those of you who use this method--have you ever un-clipped one end of the sling and made it a girth hitch to extend your piece in a pinch? I'm thinking of something similar to what DMM does with their cams.

I'm firmly in the "the slings on the cams are old but they're still strong enough i.e. above the cam's rated strength" camp. So it's not surprising that I'd climb on 10 yr old cams with original slings before I'd girth hitch a sling to the cable. There's some test data out there (BD?) that showed that to be a very bad idea.

Nobody seems to worry about replacing nylon when it comes to their 5+ year old car seatbelts. Yes, it's a climbing manufacturer's recommendation, but nylon doesn't oxidize or break down on it's own. If they're frayed, faded, or stiff, you have a problem. Otherwise, they're fine.

Gunkiemike wrote:There's some test data out there (BD?) that showed that to be a very bad idea.

I saw a study BD did with connecting different types of slings to each other with a girth hitch and doing a drop test (part two in that link). The weakest variations still held up to ~9kN, though that is lower than the rating on most cams. I wonder how that study translates to sling-on-cable or sling-on-stem.

Mark--that's a good point with the seat belts. And we know those sit in the hot sun and get exposed to coffee and soda spills all the time.

Thanks for the input everyone.

wivanoff wrote: Did the same with nylon slings. Added some tape to hold the loops in place so I don't have to worry so much about the racking 'biner. Top one is taped, bottom one not yet.

Given the recent high profile sportclimbing deaths/injuries from biners held inplace with rubberbands on longdraws this seems a terrible practice to encourage. Sure it is safe, but one mix up with cams at the crag and some one could be very seriously hurt or killed.

Brian Adzima wrote: Given the recent high profile sportclimbing deaths/injuries from biners held inplace with rubberbands on longdraws this seems a terrible practice to encourage. Sure it is safe, but one mix up with cams at the crag and some one could be very seriously hurt or killed.

people die all the time because they forget to use their brain.

Brian Adzima wrote: Given the recent high profile sportclimbing deaths/injuries from biners held inplace with rubberbands on longdraws this seems a terrible practice to encourage. Sure it is safe, but one mix up with cams at the crag and some one could be very seriously hurt or killed.

Rubberbands on longdraws is not exactly the same thing now, is it?

I agree that rubber bands on open slings to hold the 'biner in place is not a good idea. But that mode of failure has to do with racking as alpine draws and not seeing that you've clipped outside the loop when extending them.

With the method I showed, the tape prevents clipping one loop. Adding more tape would make it impossible.

Here's another way to do it: kakibusok.plus.com/Equipmen…

You wrote "Sure it is safe" and then "some one could be very seriously hurt or killed"..... Which one is it?

wivanoff wrote: Rubberbands on longdraws is not exactly the same thing now, is it? I agree that rubber bands on open slings to hold the 'biner in place is not a good idea. But that mode of failure has to do with racking as alpine draws and not seeing that you've clipped outside the loop when extending them. With the method I showed, the tape prevents clipping one loop. Adding more tape would make it impossible. Here's another way to do it: kakibusok.plus.com/Equipmen… You wrote "Sure it is safe" and then "some one could be very seriously hurt or killed"..... Which one is it?

If you clip both loops its good. If you clip one loop you're not good. If you tape it or use shrink tubing the latter becomes less likely, but as pictured above, such a solution is an accident waiting to happen.

If its tapped up you also lose the ability to inspect the runner. What do you gain from this setup anyways? It looks alittle cleaner and might be a little stronger, but what is more likely, the sling breaking or the rock around a small cam failing?

Scott Scharfenberg wrote:I'm surprised to hear that, Greg. I've been taught ... So you're willing to bet buckets of money, but how about your life? .

Well yes. I was betting my life on my old 4 cam last weekend that I bought so long ago I can't remember. I have never reslung it. I've fallen on it many times including last weekend. I have seen photos of many cam failures over the years. None of them due to sling failure.

People give generic advice like "if you have any doubt, replace it". I prefer an explanation and some evidence why I should replace something. I used to retire biners dropped only ten feet because I was poorly informed.

It would seem this is relevant to your interests:

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

5.5
That is all.

I really like Runout Customs based in Moab. Luke does a great job with any re-slinging/custom work.

Temporary "jingus" slings are for "Jingus Jinguson" (Tom Hargis favorite quote)

runoutcustoms.com/Cam_Repai…