Climbing on a single half/twin rope

Jared K. wrote: Silly until you realize how much time is spent on rope management while climbing on two strands. I'm definitely no expert on it, but the times I've been part of a multi-rope team, the extra time spent flaking was frustrating, especially during poor weather and small belay ledges. I get what you're saying, but I think the efficiency improvements are absolutely worth it. And all other things being equal, less time in the danger zone = lower chance of danger.

I disagree. Like I said, I use my PMI 8.1s all the time and once you practice a bit, the time difference between multiple and single ropes is insignificant. Why did you have to reflake so much?

It was a different situation, but one that I guess would play out the same. We were a team of 3 climbing on two strands. The leader would simul-belay two followers. It was 12 pitches or so, and the rope management was CRAP at every single belay station. Lots of tangles, the wind wanted to take the rope everywhere except the place you wanted it to go, etc, etc...it was no fun, and took an inordinate amount of time to sort everything out, probably 5 extra minutes at each station. Over the course of the climb, that was an extra hour completely wasted.

While there were other things that contributed, it became a major factor in creating an unintentional bivvy that night.

So maybe I'm just jaded. :-)

Based upon your original post, it works so long as the leader doesn't fall or the 2nd doesn't fall far. Case in point, a solid leader went to lead up what seemed a straightforward pitch, unexpectedly fell. Epic. Significant rescue. Major surgery. Not sure if he'll walk normally again. As in most climbing, you have to make decisions based upon an incomplete data set. Good luck.

Leo Paik wrote:Based upon your original post, it works so long as the leader doesn't fall or the 2nd doesn't fall far. Case in point, a solid leader went to lead up what seemed a straightforward pitch, unexpectedly fell. Epic. Significant rescue. Major surgery. Not sure if he'll walk normally again. As in most climbing, you have to make decisions based upon an incomplete data set. Good luck.

What was the reason for the epic fall? Did the rope fail in some way?

Jared K. wrote:We were a team of 3 climbing on two strands. :-)

Gotcha. I've tried that as well - clusterf&%$ every time.

With just 2 climbers it isn't too difficult after a few tries to flake the ropes as one (whether they are twins or doubles). Once you get it down you never want to go back. I've gotten to the point where any multipitch means doubles unless there's a really good reason not to.

Jared K. wrote:While there were other things that contributed, it became a major factor in creating an unintentional bivvy that night. So maybe I'm just jaded. :-)

I had a situation much like this myself...

Hey there... was thinking about some things as I am headed out to do some alpine climbing in the next month or so with a team of 3 and have a few questions as I have little experience with half/double ropes. In order to move efficiently someone mentioned that having the leader belay each second on a strand of the Mammut 8.5 genesis. This seems a bit sketchy to me but may be quite standard practice... as I said, little exp with doubles. I would see this cutting down on a lot of belay station time. Seems to me like it might be better to have the first second on the doubles and the second on a single rope, or even better climb with two single ropes. Thought besides that I'm gonna die?

Ed Rhine wrote:Hey there... was thinking about some things as I am headed out to do some alpine climbing in the next month or so with a team of 3 and have a few questions as I have little experience with half/double ropes. In order to move efficiently someone mentioned that having the leader belay each second on a strand of the Mammut 8.5 genesis. This seems a bit sketchy to me but may be quite standard practice... as I said, little exp with doubles. I would see this cutting down on a lot of belay station time. Seems to me like it might be better to have the first second on the doubles and the second on a single rope, or even better climb with two single ropes. Thought besides that I'm gonna die?

Ed - I don't climb alpine, but it's normal/safe practice on rock to belay each second on a single strand in a double rope system using a guide-mode type device that handles two ropes in an auto-locking configuration (ATC guide, reverso, Kong Gi-Gi). Each rope can easily hold a top-roped fall with sufficient safety reserves.

cjdrover wrote: Gotcha. I've tried that as well - clusterf&%$ every time. With just 2 climbers it isn't too difficult after a few tries to flake the ropes as one (whether they are twins or doubles). Once you get it down you never want to go back. I've gotten to the point where any multipitch means doubles unless there's a really good reason not to.

I've never had a problem with speed as a team of 3 on 2 half ropes. As long as leading is done in blocks, the changeovers can be sped up if you have one follower flaking his rope while the other follower gives the leader back gear. Next, the follower with a flaked rope starts giving the leader gear while the other follower flakes the rope. By the time the leader has all of his gear back, time to climb.

When I want to climb on a single half/twin, I double it up tie in as two ropes on one side, and a bight on the other. When I'm doing this I'm usually simul-climbing so 30m is plenty of rope.