Rope Solo Forum

• 2 questions.  I'm about 100 lrs pitches under my belt. Mult pitch lrs rappel, clean and trs up do you knot the end. It jammed for a second last time. Is it worth possibly jamming and a re re climb or just rely on the 2 progess pulleys only. The other one is i usually stick clip both bolts cragging.  First one is easy second one is the back up and it pushed against my gri gri plus and prevented it from catching because i had it pre rigged on my harness and rope and not stick clipped.  Second bolt is a pain if its difficult in that section. Not sure that makes sense. I do what brett sells and rigs. 

My general rule while rope soloing is to only have knots on carabiners or my harness.  If you leave a knot dangling it will jamb on something.  It takes some time to get comfortable in trusting your TRS system as complete with backup.  If you are working a section and get sketched, drop a knot, but pull it back up and untie it before you move on.

Yea, super high second bolts can be a pain, sometimes it's best to aid up and stick clip the second vs going for it on lead.  I think this is the least safe part of LRS, and I tend to avoid routes with low cruxes. 

Thank you for the reply. That's reassuring on both. I feel style points are less important by yourself so i use a stick clip where i would never with a partner. 

Anyone gotten their hands on the new Petzl Asap to use as a backup for the continuous cache system? I saw one person on the Facebook group that posted their use of it and pulling slack in conjuction with a MT didn't look too cumbersome but wanted to get other's opinions. I personally hate cache loops and have been setting periodic slip knots to block my MT but that rope management sucks too.

Also, anyone know of other options for a cheap chest harness fuse? $18 from Avant feels steep for what it is. Considering just using small zip ties but that could get annoying.

I haven't tried an ASAP, though I am interested in the Fuse/Fuse jammer combo.  Are there advantages to the ASAP?

I primarily pre-cache because I can pull up three loops and tie off in less than 15 seconds.  I just find it easier to pre-cache when its easier so I can stay focused on climbing when it's harder.  I would like to feel safe going loop free on easier terrain.

I think it's worth it buying the fuse, it's insurance and it's going to break free before any cord does.  Anything to facilitate engagement of your device in an upside down fall seems worthwhile to me.  I haven't really seen mine getting worn out.

Kevin Stricker wrote:

I haven't tried an ASAP, though I am interested in the Fuse/Fuse jammer combo.  Are there advantages to the ASAP?

Hey Kevin. I think we have a common climbing partner in Dave R from LA.

I think the ASAP looks like a good third hand to backup the gri gri used in conjunction with a micro traxion to prevent back feeding. I doubt it feeds as smoothly as the Fuse which looks like a great device. The ASAP is only 190 grams and looks like it could easily be used as the bottom ascender in a top rope solo kit (if that's how you choose to clean your pitches after leading). The Fuse is heavy at 400+ grams and also expensive and has the back feeding issue when used alone unless you buy that bliss climbing device, which adds another $150 to the $300 fuse.

Freebell is the other option. With a proper chest mount or Mr. Roger's window mod (not for the faint of heart), it is equal to the Fuse/Jammer combo. Ben says he's currently working on a V2 that incorporates the window natively, which should immediately make it the best backup device available. 

I've run a partner's ASAP/MT combo. It's fiddly and annoying compared to my current Freebell setup. The Fuse/Jammer combo is neither of those things, but it is heavy and expensive.

I'll post my current Freebell rig next week. Should give a good point of comparison.

Hi Earl!  Heard lots of stories of your and Dave’s adventures. It’s funny we are all on the LRS train now. Dave has an ASAP, I thought he tried it, I don’t remember what he didn’t like about it. I didn’t realize there was such a difference in weight between it and the Fuse.

What do you guys think of Derek Averill’s tunable friction device?  The longer I solo, the less I worry about devices exploding, and more about the 20’ upside down fall onto a ledge. For that reason the TFD seems like a solid back-up to the most common failure mode of a Grigri+. 

Bump for the soloists.

I was a quick adopter of soft cinch backfeed preventers and have used them religiously since they were released. I’ve started to recognize though that having some backfeed “pressure” can actually be beneficial. With my grigri+, I get smoother clips when the rope is on the verge of back-feeding.  I used to like having a cinch on the bolt before the crux, because I was able to easily assess the slack in the system. I’ve found it’s better to wait for or after a crux to add cinch’s to keep your rope feeding smoothly.

I'll have to experiment with that. I think my rope diameter might be holding me back on feeding rope at a crux overhang. My body position messes with the angle of the feed. Gets pumpy trying to pump slack through the gri gri. Sometimes i feel things can't flow any smoother other times there are struggles. 

Overhanging traverses may be the worst for grigri rope feeding. I’ve found that sometimes I can orient my body to help rope feed, but I often have to grab the cache loop and throw it back up over the grigri to help facilitate the clip. So if I was traversing to the right I will grab the cache loop on my right and throw it over the device towards the left, then grab a bight of slack and clip. 

Interesting.  Need to try that. Thank you. 

Anyone try the roc solo? Can it hold a hang dog? It engages in a fall but if one leans back with a gri gri plus it holds. Thanks 

I definitely agree we need rope solo forums!!! If fact, two would be best: for TRS (sensible and for the masses) and for LRS (caveat emptor).

Some misc comments:

Craig Mearns wrote:

• 2 questions.  [...] Is it worth possibly jamming and a re re climb or just rely on the 2 progess pulleys only.

IMO, it is "kosher" to follow (in LRS and partnered fix-and-follow) with 2 PCPs and no knot in the end. (With 1 PCP, I would absolutely NOT be okay with it.) After all, if we are 100 feet up on a single-pitch cragging TRS, we are already 100% trusting our lives to two PCPs (and if the end of the rope is on the ground, a knot won't make any difference and you will still crater if somehow both PCPs fail at the same time). 

Now, an EXTRA thing knots prevent that everyone should really worry about is rappelling off the end of the rope. There is a fix I learned from Derek Averill that makes me feel a bit better about that. The trick is to *wrap climbing tape around your rope* (on the "dangling" end) about 4 meters before the end. This take will feel noticeable in your hand and won't pass through a device normally, letting you know you are near the end. (Now, if you are approaching the end, you likely should've already hauled it up and tied a knot before you hit that tape spot, but still...) You can also consider dyeing ~4m of the rope end (e.g. with something like this).

•  The other one is i usually stick clip both bolts cragging.  First one is easy second one is the back up and it pushed against my gri gri plus and prevented it from catching because i had it pre rigged on my harness and rope and not stick clipped.  Second bolt is a pain if its difficult in that section. 

As Kevin's response hints at: it's a good idea to always pre-rig both bolts (if the low terrain is not comfortably free-solo-able). With a high first/second bolt where you can only stick-clip bolt 1, you can do this with "stick clip soloing" techniques -- use the dangling end of the rope to ascend up to the first bolt, then set the first bolt anchor by-hand and stick clip the second bolt. 

Also: something I *really* like doing after stick clipping the second bolt is tying an on-the-fly slipknot. You climb up a move or two and tie a slipknot to add an extra cache loop that'll definitely block the grigri and keep you off the ground. Demo. Note that this still requires a jug or decent stance, so some routes still seem virtually impossible to LRS safely if the crux is very very low. 

Regarding the Roc Solo: I'll absolutely buy one at some point to add the tool to the quiver (for traverses and roofs and maybe for speed missions), but the GG+ (original 2017 version) will remain the daily driver. Early reports (from others) say the Roc Solo cannot hangdog and requires using a whole separate system for ascending (and maybe even for releasing the clove hitch once it is tightened up).

Kevin Stricker wrote:

What do you guys think of Derek Averill’s tunable friction device? 

Kevin: Have you made a TFD? I've been trying to copy Derek's recipe, but with janky hot glue instead of his 3d printed bits. It's not streamlined enough yet for me to really enjoy using it. Maybe I just need to walk through a hardware store and see what I can find... Maybe something like this: 

Despite really wanting to test these methods, I'm not sure if such a "non-backup backup" system would ever make me feel secure enough. Maybe this method would be my "easy rambling" system where I think there's nearly no chance I fall, while good old redpoint rope solo clove-dumps would remain my system for harder pitches (where it is annoying to manage a continuous cache anyway) 

Hi Clay,

  Thank you for your input!  I haven’t made a TFD yet, but I still want to. I go through phases where I want to improve my systems, and phases where I just want to improve my climbing.  The TFD is tricky for me because pulling slack for your cache is probably the most energy sapping add to LRS. Adding any resistance to that activity is going to have an effect on you cumulatively. Every stroke is harder than it could be. As I mostly precache, I can use both hands to pull up and tie 3 cache loops in under a minute. My philosophy is when I compare the extra effort of tying knots to the extra effort of friction pulling every inch of rope through my nano the extra effort is not worth the reward. Not to mention with over 30 years soloing with clove back-ups it’s very difficult to convince myself it’s somehow safe now to climb without them.

I bought a Freebell, but can’t bring myself to use it knowing I may need to modify it to get it to work. It’s just so heavy! The Fuse looks pretty awesome as well, though I don’t like the mounting options.  I’m currently LRS’ing 50+ pitches a week, and while I like the idea of a device somehow making everything easier, I’m sticking with improving my flow in other ways….for now. 

Kevin, have you tried the Freebell with an armpit mount? It radically changed my opinion of the device. 

I find it more hassle than it's worth mounted on the harness because so much energy is wasted pulling cache -- both because of the friction of the device but also because the throw length is so low. With the FB attached to a double-length sling bandoliered over my shoulder and attached via the swage hole with cotton string, I was able to improve the efficiency of the device by 10x and didn't have to go ham with a saw and grinder like Rogers did. Now it's not only extremely easy to pull cache, it's also easy to monitor how much is out since it's less likely to get obscured in the harness jumble. I'm far less likely to short-rope myself now.

(Adding a Rope Solo forum section is in progress, we appreciate everyone's feedback and patience.)

Thanks Zander this is great to hear!

I'll briefly re-iterate that in my opinion, it would really be best to have separate forums for TRS and LRS, due to vast differences in the relevant techniques, the population of interested climbers, and the room for sensible experimentation. 

Thanks again!

Zander Göpfert wrote:

(Adding a Rope Solo forum section is in progress, we appreciate everyone's feedback and patience.)

Thank you Zander!!!

Mike, I need more beta….pics?