Self belay after Short fixing

I'm beginning to learn some bigwall techniques - albeit mostly online at this point. I plan to take the actual in person seminar at Yosemite soon.

Just looking for some clarity here: so when it comes to short fixing, and the leader self belaying after - is the leader essentially just using LRS technique at that point? I don't see it referred to LRS here in things I've been reading, so maybe there is a difference in technique for this that I'm not aware of. The below video ends where my questions start, but essentially you are just climbing up and feeding slack through your GriGri? I assume you have the GriGri backed up with a knot that is readjusted as you climb?

Yeah once you start leading after fixing your follower you are in standard LRS territory.

It is common to use more simplistic LRS systems for short fixing, although more elaborate ones can be and are used. If you're generally only going 40-60' up a pitch before getting put on belay then just slapping a Revo on and calling it a day (or any number of similarly simple rigs) starts to make a lot of sense. 

Corey T wrote:

...so when it comes to short fixing, and the leader self belaying after - is the leader essentially just using LRS technique at that point? 

Essentially, Yes

... essentially you are just climbing up and feeding slack through your GriGri? 

Essentially, Yes

I assume you have the GriGri backed up with a knot that is readjusted as you climb?

Yes

The only real difference in my experience is that you are tied into the rope still--this isn't always a super meaningful change, but it MIGHT be enough to make you comfortable (on very easy/secure or very steep/clean terrain) with less of a backup than one might use when LRSing generally (i.e. slapping a revo/grigri on and calling it a day).

For instance, I LRS aid with an grigri and cloves, but if I'm just doing 30-40 feet of C1 before my partner puts me on belay, I'm just using my grigri with the tie-in as a catastrophe backup.

How common is it in the bigwall speed climbing world to just have essentially a 40 foot PAS? Like just not self belaying at all? I’ve heard of people are gunning for a super fast NIAD or something they’ll do shit like that. Not sure how common or accepted it is though.

Jack Bushway wrote:

How common is it in the bigwall speed climbing world to just have essentially a 40 foot PAS? Like just not self belaying at all? I’ve heard of people are gunning for a super fast NIAD or something they’ll do shit like that. Not sure how common or accepted it is though.

That is essentially the Pakistani Death Loop (PDL).  See this thread mountainproject.com/forum/t…

Jack Bushway wrote:

How common is it in the bigwall speed climbing world to just have essentially a 40 foot PAS? Like just not self belaying at all? I’ve heard of people are gunning for a super fast NIAD or something they’ll do shit like that. Not sure how common or accepted it is though.

It's very common.  Some people do it with a 100 foot PDL.  You just must not fall.  If you're comfortable enough on the terrain, you'd easily be able to stop, put in a piece of gear, and clip it.

Most people, myself included used some form of belay unless we were incredibly confident on the terrain. The gri-gri is a PITA to feed slack (at least the way I did it). I'd usually throw 10-20 feet out at a time (or enough to go from one stance to the next. It SUCKS to shortrope yourself because you reach that next stance. But maybe there's a more efficient way to self-belay these days

It has to be said- don’t try this at home kids. If you haven’t done a big wall the regular way, you really shouldn’t be using any of the more advanced techniques. 

C’mon people, the guy said he’s just beginning to learn and y’all are throwing out Pakistani death loops and 100’ tethers.

Jack Bushway wrote:

How common is it in the bigwall speed climbing world to just have essentially a 40 foot PAS? Like just not self belaying at all? I’ve heard of people are gunning for a super fast NIAD or something they’ll do shit like that. Not sure how common or accepted it is though.

I only short fix if the terrain is super easy, either to aid or free climb. I tried self belaying and hated it on big walls. Now I just daisy solo, which actually helps preserve more gear since I back clean almost every piece. 

It helps to put your grigri on upside down and tie at least one back-up that acts like a cache loop to allow the Grigri to keep feeding. If you pull up 50’ of rope and slap your Grigri on you will short rope yourself with every move. It is usually easier to just tie a clove into every 20’ of slack you pull up clipped to your belay loop, and then climb with several smaller PDL’s and no grigri assuming the terrain allows it. 

Pretty standard to short fix and use a Revo for big walls in a day. A lot of people definitely just run the PDL as well but rarely on their first time up a route. Other methods I've used is just a big PDL plus a single clove so you're cutting it in half but the loops can get snaggy. Getting the length of the amount of slack you pull up is pretty key. If you pull up too much, you're essentially exposing yourself to more risk since the self belay system has more slack in it. Not enough and you get stuck wasting time and put unnecessary strain on your partner to jumar or follow faster than they need to. 

TIL I've been running a PDL.
I've always thought the PDL was literally a loop. As in you are soloing, reach an anchor, pass the rope through, then tie into each end of the rope. Once you reach the next anchor you untie, pull the rope, and do it again. Kinda like a reverse rappel, but with a FF1+ the entire time you're free soloing. I guess I learned about it when I didn't have any concept of big wall climbing, let alone speed climbing.