The future of climbing at the Leap

Just returned to Portland from a weeklong climbing trip to the Leap.  For the record, 5.7 is my lead limit and I had great fun swinging leads on three of the classic 5.7s -- Bears Reach, Corrugation, and Surrealistic Pillar. 

Having followed this thread before my trip, I just wanted to say thank you to the locals for preserving the traditional ethic of the crag.  I wouldn't have driven 10 hours from Oregon for a grid bolted experience. Loved the steep walls and nice easy walk offs with stone steps!

I did wonder when the last time someone fell on that pin on the P3 traverse of Corrugation -- didn't look like it would hold more than body weight. Not sure I would even want to take on it. But the risk was acceptable to me :O 

What could ease some of the crowding on the classics? Good route descriptions and gear beta on the lesser climbed routes. I don't mind adventure routes, but when they are at my limit I want info to determine whether I think I can handle it and not get in over my head. Armed with that info, I might be more inclined to hop on something else if the classic line was busy. They weren't for us -- we got up early =)

Route? If I remember right, there's some long-smashed bolts over on what used to be Wings on a Pig

Oh gosh, it was a couple of weeks ago… on the hogs back. Something easyish went up to a ledge where I placed a gear anchor then noticed the smashed bolt by my feet.

Charles Winstead wrote:

spotted at the leap

This photo is super representative of the old school "ethics" that needs to die off. "You didn't ask permission from the cool kids to bolt a route? We are going to smash your bolts and leave an eyesore for decades to come."

There are dozens of bolts like this at the leap and the loaf. That kind of destruction has nothing to do with preserving the rock and everything to do with ego. 

The traverse pitch pin on corrugation corner does not need a bolt or replacement. It protects perfectly with a small wire and is a piece of history

Charles Winstead wrote:

spotted at the leap

Thats pretty old bolt based on corrosion and obviously carbon steel. Appears to be an older SS metolious hanger.

What get's me is thats just a fucking mess now. If your gonna be mad at bolts at least pull them and patch them, this kind of shit is worse than just leaving it alone IMO. Do it right if youre gonna enforce your will. Extremely poor style.
With the hanger smashed over part of the nut, its now harder to remove.
Hulk smash, and leave trash.

I wonder if this is just left over garbage from a ego war of past, or if it a new transgression. If new, thats hilarious, considering how long its probably been there....
Calling on the strawbillies.... You guys gonna pull the thrash? Is there a list of smashed bolts just hanging on the wall that need removal? (Offering to help again)
Anyone of you strawbillies know the story behind it and why its left there? Maybe this is some kind of pirate like warning sign left to deter the act? LoL- Still needs removal.

If anyone wants to give some locations of trash left on the wall like this it wold be great to know, I'll happily add it to my short list of hardware that needs replacing or removing at the leap and elsewhere.

Man that's unfortunate. Maybe (likely?) that bolt shouldn't have been there in the first place, but smashing it instead of a proper removal is definitely the mark of someone who doesn't care much about the Leap. And Andrew brings up another one like it that apparently was quite good based on the comments here: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105987510/pigs-on-the-wing. Hopefully the current caretakers of the Leap show it some love and clean up these messes. I heard there was a sport climbing clinic (not a typo) there this weekend and on the agenda was ethics and etiquette, so maybe they'll discuss it there? 

Theres one of these somewhere on the east wall too. I forget which route but its at the feet of P1 belay of one of the classics

I think that smashed hanger is on that ledge on top of P1 of the East Wall route. It's been like that for at least 20 years.

Jimmy Wilson wrote:

I think that smashed hanger is on that ledge on top of P1 of the East Wall route. It's been like that for at least 20 years.

yes thats the one! 

Mr Rogers wrote:

Thats pretty old bolt based on corrosion and obviously carbon steel. Appears to be an older SS metolious hanger.

What get's me is thats just a fucking mess now. If your gonna be mad at bolts at least pull them and patch them, this kind of shit is worse than just leaving it alone IMO. Do it right if youre gonna enforce your will. Extremely poor style.
With the hanger smashed over part of the nut, its now harder to remove.
Hulk smash, and leave trash.

I wonder if this is just left over garbage from a ego war of past, or if it a new transgression. If new, thats hilarious, considering how long its probably been there....
Calling on the strawbillies.... You guys gonna pull the thrash? Is there a list of smashed bolts just hanging on the wall that need removal? (Offering to help again)
Anyone of you strawbillies know the story behind it and why its left there? Maybe this is some kind of pirate like warning sign left to deter the act? LoL- Still needs removal.

If anyone wants to give some locations of trash left on the wall like this it wold be great to know, I'll happily add it to my short list of hardware that needs replacing or removing at the leap and elsewhere.

I remember this bolt from earlier climbing at the Leap in the 90s. This bolt has been there since at least the early 1990s. and the story we told then was that it was added as a somewhat lazy retrobolt after which it either hit by rockfall first and then someone hammered it down because it was damaged or simply smashed but never removed and then forgotten because the route was not actually climbed that much and it wasn't an issue to leave it as was.

This is the only smashed hanger anywhere at Lover's Leap that I've ever seen so please do not use this as any sort of misguided excuse for retrobolting. 

Because of this thread I reached out to CRAGS and they told me that they already have an anchor replacement team organized for work later this season and relayed that the preference is for issues to be reported and work to be organized to avoid access and risk management issues. I think this is a better plan that the chest thumping and misinformation often delivered here. I asked Steve specifically about this bolt and he said he'd remove it personally this week to avoid further confusion. 

Nate Reuter wrote:

The traverse pitch pin on corrugation corner does not need a bolt or replacement. It protects perfectly with a small wire and is a piece of history

I guess I didn't look around enough for a way to back it up.  Apparently it's a bit higher than the piton? Comments I read led me to believe there was no gear after the chimney, though I see now that Petch mentioned it in his write up. I clipped the museum piece for a nod to history and accepted that my last actual piece was the #4 in at the top of the chimney.

Anyways, I wasn't advocating for a bolt, just musing about the strength of that 60 year old pin and wondering if anyone has actually fallen on it. 

Fixed pitons can be tested, and usually either snugged up or reset, if it’s needed.  

Jonathan Becker wrote:

I remember this bolt from earlier climbing at the Leap in the 90s. This bolt has been there since at least the early 1990s. and the story we told then was that it was added as a somewhat lazy retrobolt after which it either hit by rockfall first and then someone hammered it down because it was damaged or simply smashed but never removed and then forgotten because the route was not actually climbed that much and it wasn't an issue to leave it as was.

Thanks for history. Pretty ridiculous to be there that long without being pulled and patched. But whatever, better late than never.

This is the only smashed hanger anywhere at Lover's Leap that I've ever seen so please do not use this as any sort of misguided excuse for retrobolting. 

I'm only going to remove it and patch the hole. I dont retro without following the clear as mud rules of FA permission/desire.
And there are more smashed hangers around the leap, to offer insight. But I appreciate your concern.

Because of this thread I reached out to CRAGS and they told me that they already have an anchor replacement team organized for work later this season and relayed that the preference is for issues to be reported and work to be organized to avoid access and risk management issues. I think this is a better plan that the chest thumping and misinformation often delivered here. I asked Steve specifically about this bolt and he said he'd remove it personally this week to avoid further confusion. 

Welp, odds are Ill get to it before them. Sugar bun today as example of thigns "on the list", that are now remedied (well I'll be back thursday to finish removing one bolt that was not cooperative and patch its hole)

Andrew Leaf wrote:

I guess I didn't look around enough for a way to back it up.  Apparently it's a bit higher than the piton? Comments I read led me to believe there was no gear after the chimney, though I see now that Petch mentioned it in his write up. I clipped the museum piece for a nod to history and accepted that my last actual piece was the #4 in at the top of the chimney.

Anyways, I wasn't advocating for a bolt, just musing about the strength of that 60 year old pin and wondering if anyone has actually fallen on it. 

I didn't see it, but years ago I climbed up Corrugation thinking there was no one on it. I found a frightened brother and sister on the slopey ledge, their rope went up to the pin, and back down. No other gear.  The brother told me he followed it the prior season and thought it easy, so he tried leading it, taking a few falls onto the pin, before lowering to the ledge. He then sent his less experienced sister up. Who also lowered off the pin. Yikes! I took their rope to the top and belayed them up.

But yes, you can put in a small wire just above the pin. Nice thing here is you can clip your nut and the pin with a single biner.

Are there more smashed hangers at the Leap? I sure haven't seen them.  I think Michael Baker's comment above that there are "dozens" is hyperbole

Mr Rogers wrote:

Welp, odds are Ill get to it before them. Sugar bun today as example of thigns "on the list", that are now remedied (well I'll be back thursday to finish removing one bolt that was not cooperative and patch its hole)

Rogers - I'm sorry. I left those because I thought you had handled them already per the other post. A friend screenshot this and just sent it to me so I'm popping in. I'm glad you guys took care of it. Thank you. Honestly I'm doing my best to take on a lot of different work and the list is very long. You can always contact me and we can coordinate directly. When we organized to go out to the Sugarbun I got told to leave it to you and I did thinking you had it and apparently you took care of it so thanks. That's all it is - no sky falling, no mystery - just a ton of work to do in a lot of places. I still haven't had time to really read this whole thread but will later today, thanks. 

Andrew Leaf i did not think you personally were suggesting a bolt. I added it to my thoughts on the pin not needing replacement because of the nature of the entire thread discussion.  The wire placement at the pin is bomber on its own. So needing a new pin is unnecessary and the old one is a neat piece of history

I full heartedly agree with Aidan's points. I, too, would like to see more transparency at most crags, but especially The Leap. To add to Aidan's points, I would like to see grades properly reflect the danger ratings so our new climbers can choose which of the awesome type routes they want to try. The guide book is outdated and MP doesn't have many of the routes' danger ratings updated appropriately. None of this has to change the character of the crag. It might even help because people that don't want to climb R/X will not come to The Leap. 

I feel like the danger ratings of Leap climbs on MP are pretty accurate? I've never gotten on a "safe" route and found the gear lacking unless the cracks are literally covered in moss.

The issue is that falling at the Leap is often a bad idea even if there's gear right by your ankles. The dike are meant to be mantled up, not fallen upon. There's always a chance for an ugly fall regardless of how nicely the cracks take cams ...