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Benchmarks for the grade? NC and other areas?
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Who doesn't like to talk about grades? Not necessarily the best of the grade, but what is a route of each grade that all other routes should be measured against? I only really feel qualified to talk about North Carolina, but would love to hear suggestions from other areas in the southeast. Some grades (5.10d?) are way less common than others it seems. I'm only including routes I've done, I know there are some classics missing for that reason.
Open to debate, maybe we can prevent the upwards creep of grades. *edit, asterisk routes I personally haven’t climbed. |
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I feel like we don't have a lot of 12b's in the mountain region of the state but Manifest Destiny is pretty classic, as is Atomic Dog at the Bald; both felt very true to the grade, IMO. Leapin' Lizards is a classic but I thought kinda hard for the grade (maybe I'm just soft). Unwritten Law and Waste Note Want Not could be standards for 12 b/c, ha. I do, however, feel like this is a really tough question here as the styles of climbing in NC are so varied. You almost need to sub-divide the list. Lastly, Test Pilots might in fact be harder than Boldfingers and Shredded Wheat is definitely harder than Morphin Endorphin |
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The Book for 12d? Hanging Chain for 12b? Agreed with Andrew that 12 b/c is the spot. I would add Appalachian Spring to that list |
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If Shredded Wheat is 11a, then Jack Be Nimble (just down the cliff line) is NOT 11b lmao! Then again they are vastly different styles and I'm much better at one over the other. Edit to add: I love the idea of an NC benchmarks list |
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Shredded Wheat is definitely not easy for the grade, and a style we NC face climbers aren’t used to, but I think there are harder 11as in NC (Quaker state, killer whales, cornflake crack). Maybe Fat lady at hawksbill is a better benchmark? I agree the open book is 12d, but I’ve heard it called 12c as well, so maybe not a benchmark. Probably something at middle hawksbill would qualify, but I don’t feel I’ve climbed enough of the grade. I haven’t climbed hanging chain, but that could be a good 12b. Is there a solid 12b at Raven rock? Maybe Phantom of the opera could be a better 11c benchmark that gets led. I’m using too many hawksbill examples though. 5.9….? 5.10d…? |
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Electric Kook Aid Acid Test for 12d. Predator is a classic 12c face climb tho it prob doesn't get done. But it should! Hanging Chain for 12b. Haven't seen it post break tho. Glass Menagerie for 13a (tho I haven't actually sent the roof so can't say for sure) Maybe something at Moore's? But this looks Rad. Broken Toys mountainproject.com/route/2… Whitney's Excellent is spot on for 12a Cornflake (either pitch) is a more legit 11a than Shredded which is a one move wonder. Supercrack seems benchmark 11d. Or maybe Bombelay or Extra Crimpy? Capt Crunch is a good example of 10d. Lost in Space has to be the 10b benchmark. Tits and Beer for 5.9. |
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I love your take Chummer. Several of the routes you mentioned have been upgraded, but I think we should aim for a world where T&B is consensus 5.9 and Cornflake is 11a. Seems most repeaters are calling Electric koolaid 13a if placing gear, but hats off to your grades. Broken toys is very cool but only has a couple ascents so maybe not benchmark. Conventional warfare next to it might be a good candidate for 13a as well, but I haven’t climbed it. |
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I think when discussing NC benchmarks, it is good to include the ones that are mental test pieces. Grades are so subjective, I think the whole route has to be taken into context. I think Frosted Flake is 5.7, but I also think Shredded Wheat is hard 11; but both are super safe. Three benchmark 5.11 routes for me, taking into consideration the physical difficulty and mental difficulty, would be: Special Forces, Gumfighter, and Morphin Endorphin. Special Forces is one of the top 5 pitches I’ve ever climbed. |
Curtis Bairdwrote: Could add Waste Not Want Not as a good mid-5.12 if we're looking for routes with a good mental aspect. |
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Re. Chummer's thoughts: Extra Crimpy does feel like a really good benchmark for 11d as it's pretty sustained. Whitneys also a good benchmark for 12a. Cornflake is so good and so classic but definitely a little stiff for 11a, IMO. 'The Book' is really hard to make a standard as the beta you do above the 4th bolt probably shifts the grade a good bit. Going left, like I do, probably bumps it down to 12c while staying in the corner is a good bit harder. 13a is also a tough one... The Roof or EKAT are probably on the easier end of 13a and Conventional and Triple Bypass felt on the hard end (harder than Pigs or Ride). Jacob or Greg would prolly be good people to ask on that. |
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Those grades aren’t consensus? Seems right to me. Cornflake could be 11b if you link pitches. but alone def 11a. Just a normal trad grade compared to eldo, yose, t wall. Fat Lady seems legit too but a different style EKAT was only 12/c/d when i did it. I clipped the bolts but didn’t seem 13a regardless but i could see it being a bit pumpier. tho a lot scarier for sure. I could concede TNB to Dopey duck for 5.9. |
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You're probably right re. Cornflake- does feel about what I'd expect for Eldo or Valley 11- There's mostly agreement on MP re all the 13- routes but thats about my limit so small differences in difficulty feel really big to me and I'd argue that list of routes encompasses quite the range. |
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Totally a tricky one in NC! I've definitely had some different opinions on grades depending on style and what season you are in. Alas though, 12b - The Vaporizer at whiteside. One of my favorite 12bs and I think very true to 12b. Slab eyebrow climbing 11c - Cresendo at nose area of LG Looking glass eyebrow climbing and the sunwall should just have its own benchmark grades 😅 And a good example of conditions making a significant difference to certain routes more then others is test pilots. Ive climbed that thing on days where is feels easily 11c and then other days where its 12a pump fest. Obviously everything's gonna feel different in summer then in fall but ya get my drift. |
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I updated the list with some of y’all’s great suggestions crosschecked to see if they were consensus. I guess we didn’t define benchmark, but I think it’s a route of the grade that we can agree is definitely not soft. I agree conditions and route type vary a lot, so I tried to add some routes that are very different style for some of the grades. I guess Cornflake needs to be 11a on the list since it was the first and therefore the definition of a benchmark. I also added some more in-between grades just to confuse everyone. Lmk what I got wrong. |
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I’d say the benchmark 5.12 crack is Shannon’s Dixie Reality. To my knowledge its been tried but never seen a second redpoint. |
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Do or Dive at Moores for 10a. It's harder than your other 3 entries though so maybe a bit stout as a benchmark. For 10c Shock the Monkey at Sauratown. Spectacular route and fairly graded. |
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Nice, I knew I was missing some piedmont entries! Edit, I forgot I have actually climbed do or dive, probably not soft, a good benchmark! 👍 |
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Going the other direction, the mummy has to be the 5.5 benchmark. |
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Nutsweat 5.9+. If you can lead that, you can definitely call yourself a 5.9 leader. |
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I agree, Nutsweat is a great benchmark and fairly bold climbing for the grade! The Mummy is a great addition as well |
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NC Dudes: As a non North Carolinian, I have followed this thread with some enjoyment. But it means little to me. A list I'd rather have: The must do at each grade. If I come to NC, if I brave your runouts and bizarre ethic, what must I climb? (One per number grade would be sufficient, I don't need one per letter) Bonus points for single pitch climbs, I'm from Tennessee. |
