Ohm/Ohmega unclipping from glue ins?

Twice today (once with an Ohm and once with an Ohmega) they came unclipped from the first glue in bolt while the climber was pulling slack to clip the third bolt.

This was outdoors, so the belay stance is a little less than the ideal recommended position, but I've never had this happen on bolted hangers. 

I passed the first one off as an aberration, but twice in one day makes me want to switch to a locker on my Ohmega. 

Has anyone else had this issue?

Just noticed this in the manual. Apparently, I should have paid more attention. I think I'll get a locker because these routes didn't particularly wander.

This looks like the typical QD carabiner and the direction of climbing suggestion. Really weird that this happened twice on the same day, though. 

Good idea to use locker. Unfortunately that makes removing Ohmega with a clip sick very complicated for really overhung routes 

Sparkington TheThirdwrote:

 I think I'll get a locker because these routes didn't particularly wander.

Try an Edelrid slider which can be placed with a clipstick. It can be unclipped with the loop of rope in the clipstick method if the route is really steep and it's going to be tricky to get to lowering. Practice in a noncritical situation first as always. 

duncan...wrote:

Try an Edelrid slider which can be placed with a clipstick. It can be unclipped with the loop of rope in the clipstick method if the route is really steep and it's going to be tricky to get to lowering. Practice in a noncritical situation first as always. 

Can you elaborate more? I just can't visualize how to pull the slider with clip sick

amariuswrote:

Can you elaborate more? I just can't visualize how to pull the slider with clip sick

There is a neat video of this which I have seen somewhere. Of course I can't find it now... 

Edit: I've made a YouTube short:

https://youtube.com/shorts/iNcqSpBRKMQ?si=iKvrfavsWvKnoSkK

A Pongoose clipstick (or stick clip) helps to steady the carabiner whilst you slide down the slider with the loop of rope.

Edelrid Pur Slider offset D.  It works fine with Trango stick clip, and others.  

I've used locking draws with stick clips for decades. You can also use a screw lock and close the gate as you go by.  No need to get it super tight!

I don't own a belay resistor yet but have used them.  I think lockers will be my standard.  There's a lot going on at the first bolt there.

"Spine to line" helps mitigate the issue like the edelrid info graphic is showing, but with a non-locker it can unclip even if in the less prone to unclip orientation, just better odds than the "wrong" way.

I always have always used a locker with the ohmega since when it enagages, it gets pulled up way higher than a normal QD would if you fall with at least 1 QD above the resistor. Way more motion inside the clipping point. Slider is a fantastic choice for the application.

Mack Johnsonwrote:

Edelrid Pur Slider offset D.  It works fine with Trango stick clip, and others.  

We use this one, works perfectly, also way easier to use with trango stick clips if that's what you've got, the screw locks can get in the way of gate holding sticks. 

 https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/climbing/locking-carabiner/edelrid-pure-slider

duncan...wrote:

There is a neat video of this which I have seen somewhere. Of course I can't find it now... 

Edit: I've made a YouTube short:

https://youtube.com/shorts/iNcqSpBRKMQ?si=iKvrfavsWvKnoSkK

A Pongoose clipstick (or stick clip) helps to steady the carabiner whilst you slide down the slider with the loop of rope.

Looks neat! Much thanks

To Mack - do you have a trick to unscrew screw gate using clip sick?

To Mack - do you have a trick to unscrew screw gate using clip sick?

(Edit: stick)

Toprope it  ;-)                                                                   I think I get what you are asking.  Unscrewing the gates from the ground to remove the draw?   Not that I know of.   If you get to the anchors you can lower to the deck and stay preclipped to the first bolt; a few ways to do that.

Fun historical note (I think):  

     Stick clips were first used only when there was a crux or dangerous move below a bolt, or when lower placements were suspect or gave rope drag.  Even earlier, there were some gear routes where "cheater sticks" were used to place gear in slots that were out of reach from below.  Intimidation p.1 on Cathedral Ledge and Kama Sutra in the Gunks are two examples from the 1970s.                     Now that I'm old, creaky, and injured, I often use a stick clip on routes that I never used to, and routes I almost certainly won't fall on!                           I hope I'm dead before stick clips for cams are commercially available...unless they help me lead trad into my 90s....

The notion of using edelrid slider on an ohmega is appealing, tho I wonder if it really protects against the "carabiner unclipping from bolt hanger due to rotating against the hanger" (glue in or otherwise).

Seems to me that as the slider rotates that the pressure of hanger against the gate would also press right where the slider mechanism is & disengage the slider locking mechanism(?).

I have never owned a slider, so not sure how easily it is depressed, but in the situation described it seems like it might just disengage nearly as easily as regular gate carabiner.  Maybe it offers a little advantage since there is another variable to defeat??

Has anyone manually rotated a slider on a hanger to see how easy it would be to defeat the locking mechanism?  

All this is understanding adding the slider could change a 1 in 1000 situation to a 1 in 5000 situation & maybe that is all more than good enough, but theoretically I find it all interesting ... I currently just use the carabiner the ohmega came with & feel pretty comfy, but do see where unclipping could occur since upward pull always happens on this device. 

& it isn't as easy as just turning the clipping carabiner around on the ohmega when you get to the first bolt or stick clip it.  You need to remove the carabiner from the little sling & turn it around as the ohmega needs to be oriented rope outward from rock since it doesnt have the groovy swivel joint to reorient the device that the Ohm2 has.

Still, I might consider a slider.

Peter Underwoodwrote:

All this is understanding adding the slider could change a 1 in 1000 situation to a 1 in 5000 situation & maybe that is all more than good enough, but theoretically I find it all interesting ... I currently just use the carabiner the ohmega came with & feel pretty comfy, but do see where unclipping could occur since upward pull always happens on this device. 

Yea. I used an Ohm, ohm2, and now and Ohmega for years without this happening. Maybe it's the particular shape of the glue ins at this crag.

Questions:
1) What resistance mode were you using when it was unclipping? I use an Edelrid slider with mine and haven't had it unclip, but the middle resistance mode where you clip both sides of the sling, or girth hitch it through itself has given me problems because the sling is too short and stiff to move around freely, so it got jammed against the wall and wouldn't release. Perhaps using this mode would increase the likelihood of unclipping because the rope force will transmit through the device to the bolt-side carabiner more directly.
2) Did your Ohmegas come with a carabiner? Mine did not. On day 1 I stole the Edelrid slider from my OG Raed Zaed (that DID come with it). This device seems like an obvious use case for a slide locker... if it comes unclipped and you outweigh your belayer by 50lbs+ then you fall at the 2nd or 3rd bolt... could be bad.

Edit: Here's a video, I tried to unclip the slider/Ohmega combo on a hanger. Definitely feasible, but quite a lot harder than a non-locking quickdraw. 

I was using the lightest resistance mode on my Ohmega. It didn't come with a carabiner. I was using a petzl spirit with a petzl micro swivel then the Ohmega.

Maybe the swivel caused things to twist in a weird way?