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How dangerous are walk offs in Red Rock?

Original Post
Jeremy Brown · · New Albany · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 15

I've climbed a couple of multi pitch routes at Red Rock Canyon that had some seemingly low risk, high-consequence walk offs at the summit. 

I thought Physical Graffiti between the last anchor and the trail to be a little scary and Olive Oil from the summit to the descent trail. 

The trails themselves weren't bad, but that rounded dome of sandstone before you get there just makes me think of slipping and rolling off the edge. I feel like I'm being a little overly dramatic as I've watched other climbers happily walk right down to the trail without a care in the world. 

Is that just how it is out there? Do I need to do a few more to get acclimated to it? Seems dangerous to me, but I've climbed mostly single pitch stuff.

Thanks everyone 

Cosmic Hotdog · · California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 459

There are many walk offs at Red Rock (and countless other multi pitch climbing destinations) where the walk off involves very easy moves that, if botched, can have severe consequences yes. It's a very normal thing and comes with the territory. You'll encounter this at Yosemite, Eldo, Tahquitz, Jtree, etc. all over the world. Realistically, if you're capable enough to do the technical rock climbing required to get to the summit, you are more than capable of doing a 3rd or even easy 4th class scramble moves that may be part of the walk off.

It'll feel more casual and less of a mental thing as you continue to do more so don't be hard on yourself for feeling a little spooked at times. You'll get acclimated to it. 

Bryan K · · Chattanooga · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 698

Yes you'll just have to get comfortable with exposed scrambling and down climbing as you get in to doing multi pitches there and everywhere else.  The top-out of the Riding Hood Wall is very chill compared to lots of other peaks out in the canyons.  It may be exposed at that initial traverse but it's not even 3rd class terrain there.  

I would suggest to do some scrambling in the Calico hills on a day off.  Wear good approach shoes and as you get more mileage in you'll get a lot more comfortable with the friction of the rock and what kind of moves you can do.  It will instill a lot more confidence for when you're scrambling off peaks in the canyons.

However, keep in mind you can always break out the rope for sections you don't feel comfortable with and don't feel ashamed for that decision if you really feel you need it.  Just do your research on what the finishing terrain is like for certain climbs and make sure your partner is made aware of your comfort level ahead of any objectives.  If they're more comfortable with scrambling terrain, a good option is to have them go first through sketchy looking sections and they can guide you through them.  Also, many times there are exposed sections off a summit that are near the finishing anchor, so it's very easy to just stay on belay for those sections for extra security and minimal added effort/time.

Tony Greenway · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2022 · Points: 828

Jeremy I've been there and felt the same way... and to Cosmic's point, it did get better with time and mileage - maybe it took me longer than most, but it got better.   I really like what Bryan K wrote about communication and strategies.  Never feel pressured to do something super sketchy...   find a way to make it safer - there are ways.  Subtle changes can make it feel completely different.  Climb on!

phylp phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 1,142

You mention the Olive Oil descent - I have a distinct memory of one step down that seemed wierdly exposed to me. Just one move, but I made my much taller husband step down first and spot me from below. And I was routinely onsighting R rated routes at a much harder grade at the time.
It’s good to always have a situational awareness of the consequences of a stumble at any point. Depending on the descent, if it’s 4th class or sometimes even third class, I will leave my climbing shoes on until it’s more secure. 

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,908

Them term "walk off" is often mis-applied.  I try not to use it unless one can truly and simply walk off from the top of the climb.  Prior comments are good.

dave custer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 3,088

Anecdotally, walk offs are much less dangerous than the climbs themselves. It is rare to hear of accident/injuries/rescues from the walk off or scramble descent relative to climbs themselves. That's just my impression/intuition talking, not data. 

Just because it's rare doesn't nix all the good advice above.

More thoughts about getting down: 

Your condition: Physically, descending is harder, simply because it's the end of a long, tiring day. Mentally, feeling pressured--self or otherwise--to get to the car/trail/BJs before dark/last call might not be the best mindset in high-consequence terrain. 

Environmental conditions: especially darkness, suddenly wet rock from a thunderstorm, ice covering all the easy slabs in Oak Creek... 

Chance favors the prepared mind: On a rainy/rest day, do the descent as a hike. Doing so will ease an otherwise worried mind when topping out at sunset.

Acclimatization to risk has a light side and a dark side: It is empowering to have the experience base to know that you have the skills to manage the risk; it is folly to think that because you've managed the risk poorly multiple times in the past without consequence, this time around it'll be fine to make some more poor risk management decisions.

Jeremy Brown · · New Albany · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 15

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful advice. It helps to know that's just how things are. Sounds like I need more practice, and to move slowly and carefully. 

I'll discuss this with my partner and we can plan and train together.

We've also discussed hiring a guide to assess our abilities and teach us some a few things that might be helpful in Red Rock Canyon. 

Thanks!

Peter Czoschke · · Bloomington, MN · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 1

Bryan K mentioned approach shoes but I would emphasize this point.  The difference between scrambling in tennis shoes or even hiking boots vs approach shoes is significant, especially on those slopy slabs that are everywhere in Red Rock.  I would argue that for the walk-offs, approach shoes are better than climbing shoes, since the latter can be slippery on sand or dirt.  Get yourself some approach shoes and more experience and you will start to gain confidence and feel less sketched out.  (But also don't get complacent.)

To answer your original question, though: yes, the walk offs at RR are dangerous, undoubtedly.  More than one person has sent the gnar then slipped and died on the walk off.  But with some care, that danger can be managed just like any other low risk, high consequence scenario.  Remember the climb isn't over until you're back at the car; budget the time and mental energy to not just get up, but also get back down.

phylp phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 1,142
Peter Czoschkewrote:

: yes, the walk offs at RR are dangerous, undoubtedly.  More than one person has sent the gnar then slipped and died on the walk off.  But with some care, that danger can be managed just like any other low risk, high consequence scenario.  Remember the climb isn't over until you're back at the car; budget the time and mental energy to not just get up, but also get back down.

But to be fair, the walkoffs are not any more dangerous than many other places I can think of - Joshua Tree, Tuolumne Meadows etc.  It's just people typically don't bother making a particular note of descents that have class 3 and 4 sections. It's pretty common and a fairly routine part of climbing.

Mark Webster · · Tacoma · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 245

I've only done a dozen of the 5 pitch routes at Red Rocks, but I distinctly remember being very nervous on downclimbs with 40 foot drops. My partners were scampering merrily down without a care in the world while I was terrified. They either spotted me and or broke out a rope. This is often partly because most of my partners are decades younger and much more agile. I have the same terror walking off Broadway Ledge after St. Vitus Dance at Squamish. Hell yeah I'll belay that! But those Red Rocks walk offs are a special kind of annoyance, not to mention racing darkness and the stupid locked gate. The views are great, but at least for me, I prefer friendlier climbing areas like Indian Creek, Index, Leavenworth, City of Rocks, Joshua Tree, Smith Rocks. Do a pitch or three then rap or walk off on safe trails.

Cosmic Hotdog · · California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 459

^ first time I've seen Joshua Tree called a friendly climbing area!

No shame in asking to be put on belay for a move or two that truly spooks you. Though I will say it adds precious time to big days/long descents and sometimes it really sucks to watch it get dark because your partner can't make a 3rd or 4th class move over and over again. I think it's something that folks need to work on if it's a weakness of theirs 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Nevada
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