New Blue Ice Warthog packs

Tinus Swrote:

Wow! Impressive! 

Regarding this pack, how's its durability?

Does it really withstand hauling well?

One major complaint on the blue ice pack from 3 people at the hostel who where using them in Patagonia this season was that they were very uncomfortable to carry with heavy loads. Two people had small tears in theirs from general use and a friend of mine had one entirely rip in half in AK last year. A lot of hauling durability comes down to how the bag is packed. 

Never climbed with one or used one myself. I (obviously) just like talking about backpacks

Bug Boywrote:

One major complaint on the blue ice pack from 3 people at the hostel who where using them in Patagonia this season was that they were very uncomfortable to carry with heavy loads. Two people had small tears in theirs from general use and a friend of mine had one entirely rip in half in AK last year. A lot of hauling durability comes down to how the bag is packed. 

Never climbed with one or used one myself. I (obviously) just like talking about backpacks

One of the three. The main reason I found the alpine hauler so uncomfortable was a short torso length. In order to use the hip webbing I had to loosen the shoulder straps enough that the thin section without padding was all that made contact with my shoulders. The back panel is more flimsy than the arc packs as well, and I experienced uncomfortable warping under heavy loads, regardless of how much care was taken packing.

I also wasn't impressed with the durability. The tight fabric seems abrasive resistant but is super susceptible to punctures and tears. Every trip, even without hauling, I put more holes and small tears in the BI pack than I would put in an arc bag over a whole season. I swear sometimes new holes would appear just from setting the it down on a ledge.

One of the seams along my back panel also split open from regular wear. Hoping to warranty it soon....

Tinus Swrote:

Wow! Impressive! 

Regarding this pack, how's its durability?

Does it really withstand hauling well?

It’s definitely not as indestructible as a true haul bag and it’s not meant to replace one on a big wall. But for what it is, it’s surprisingly durable. I’d say it’s significantly tougher than something like a Hyperlite Ice Pack and probably on par with (or better than) a BD Creek pack in terms of abrasion resistance. Which is crazy.

A lot comes down to how you pack it. If you overstuff it with 50 lbs and create uneven pressure points, you’re asking for holes, especially on the side being hauled. Keeping things compact and smooth inside makes a big difference IMO.

For context, I’ve put mine through a lot. I first used it on an expedition in India, then hauled it on a Sierra first ascent where we spent three days working the lower wall, loads of hauling on rough granite, often less than vertical. I’d say it’s not what the manufacturer made it for. After that, I took it to the Winds and used it on a couple long multipitch routes, plus a bunch of local drytooling days on multipitch routes. At this point it’s basically my beater pack. I wouldn’t take it on a major expedition again, but considering how much abuse it’s seen, the fact that it’s still holding up is kind of wild for such a light pack.

On the flip side, I’ve had much worse luck with similar popular light alpine packs. I recently put a hole in a basically new Hyperlite Ice Pack just from stuffing a laptop into it, during travel. Yes, I use it for travel only at this point. And years ago, I hauled one for a single pitch on the California Route on Fitz Roy, it came back with a big hole after that one short section. I heard some other horror stories about their durability, not sure if they moved their manufacturing some place or what, but quality is questionable. Based on my anecdotal experience.

So yeah it’s a pack made to haul on a few pitches on your long climbs in the mountains, on tough ice climbs etc, but not to be a legit haul bag. If you use it within its lane and pack it well, it can take a lot more abuse than I personally expected. Issue is that people use gear for what it’s not supposed to be and complain about it not being perfect. I was browsing reviews on BD’s drytooling gloves a couple weeks ago and someone gave them 1 star because his fingers got cold climbing an ice pitch in 20F. 🤦‍♂️ 

Interested in other people's feedback on the alpine hauler material. I've seen one two catastrophic failures (Balin M and Vitaliy M) - talked with him, apparently it was damaged in rockfall. both of them, one was apparently quite overstuffed, and the other was damaged in significant rockfall. Vitaly M also had to add some patches due to it getting stuck on hauls when loaded up on an FA.

Would love thoughts and photos!

Noah Lwrote:

Interested in other people's feedback on the alpine hauler material. I've seen two catastrophic failures (Balin M and Vitaliy M) - talked with both of them, one was apparently quite overstuffed, and the other was damaged in significant rockfall.

Would love thoughts and photos!

I’m Vitaliy M. What catastrophic failure did I have? That’s news to me. I hauled my old, beat up pack literally yesterday. 

Also, please provide context of Balin’s catastrophic failure, since you are already spreading rumors. 

I just found out what it was and it was not at all because pack is fragile, or anything related to hauling, LOL so please let us all know how that failure occurred.

Bug Boywrote:

I still think what sets the Arc Alpha (and hyperlite ice) packs apart from pretty much everything is the ability to OVERSTUFF them. These seem like dope packs but the rolltops are just wayy to short for a lot of alpine climbing. 

Alpine climbing generally implies approaching and climbing with the same pack and inevitably, there will be much more gear in the pack during the hike in then when climbing with it. I think most people would agree they are down to sacrifice a "balanced pack" during the hike and approach, for a neater, more compact pack while climbing. 

Maybe I am in the minority here as well, but I have a lot of trouble with comfort for arc packs and pretty much anything that doesn't use the hyperlite-style full-hip-wrap-around-waist strap. Anyone else? I would easily sacrifice 50 grams for more comfort during hours of hiking. 

When is someone gonna improve on the hyperlite ice pack?? I want new stuff

TLDR: Make top go higher

I use the 40L ice pack as my approach and do-it-all alpine workhorse type pack (but only for a few months now). I am curious what you think an improved ice pack would look like? Like what is the ideal scenario in your opinion? I know it is a bit off topic, but have to ask cause I also have thoughts about it and still think there is room for improvement in the alpine backpack industry in general. Also I just love talking about backpacks. 

I think the ice pack is too annoying to get stuff in and out of while maintaining good pack shape which gets annoying for approaches over a few hours or with variable terrain where you are switching layers a lot. 

The HMG crux 40 is really sweet and *almost there* for an alpine pack but needs to weigh half as much and lose a few unnecessary features IMO- or basically the arcteryx alpha in a 35L version with a more comfortable waist strap. 

Bug Boywrote:

I think the ice pack is too annoying to get stuff in and out of while maintaining good pack shape which gets annoying for approaches over a few hours or with variable terrain where you are switching layers a lot. 

The HMG crux 40 is really sweet and *almost there* for an alpine pack but needs to weigh half as much and lose a few unnecessary features IMO- or basically the arcteryx alpha in a 35L version with a more comfortable waist strap. 

Maybe the CAMP M30 would work for you?

SirTobyThe3rd Mwrote:

I’m Vitaliy M. What catastrophic failure did I have? That’s news to me. I hauled my old, beat up pack literally yesterday. 

Also, please provide context of Balin’s catastrophic failure, since you are already spreading rumors. 

I just found out what it was and it was not at all because pack is fragile, or anything related to hauling, LOL so please let us all know how that failure occurred.

Hey sorry! Didn't mean to spread rumours, we had exchanged a few messages on instagram early last August - I went back and looked and it wasn't as catastrophic a failure as I remembered, just needed some patches. Said it got beat up on an FA when overloaded and forcing through overhangs when stuck. I'll edit my original post to reflect this!

The context of Balin's was a roughly 12" tear down the side, I messaged him and asked and he said he dropped a 100lb rock on it from 60' up, so not exactly unexpected. It's also mentioned in a message on this thread: ( mountainproject.com/forum/t…)

Bug Boywrote:

I think the ice pack is too annoying to get stuff in and out of while maintaining good pack shape which gets annoying for approaches over a few hours or with variable terrain where you are switching layers a lot. 

The HMG crux 40 is really sweet and *almost there* for an alpine pack but needs to weigh half as much and lose a few unnecessary features IMO- or basically the arcteryx alpha in a 35L version with a more comfortable waist strap. 

Perhaps this Psychros from illumination equipment with the stays removed? I had an old FL45 that I had put hip pads from an even older Arc'teryx Cragging pack, maybe the Acrux, on and I wish I had kept it though I didn't like the tool carry system. This psychros has stopped me from looking for a perfect pack....so maybe it is the perfect pack? Happy to answer questions about it. 

Thinking about picking up the new Warthog 45L, but the move to a 'one-size' system has me hesitating. I've always found the Blue Ice S/M size fits perfectly for my build.

Does the new 45L feel significantly longer or bulkier than the previous S/M versions? I'm trying to decide if I should track down an older Warthog 40 in S/M instead of going with the new model. If some of you’re on the shorter side of the torso spectrum and have used the 45L, I’d love to hear how it rides when fully loaded. Thanks!

I am friends with and was at one time an ambassador for Blue Ice. I love the brand and how often they are leading the innovation in the areas of climbing they touch. I’ve spent a TON of time prototyping and developing packs with them. The original Kume ski pack was developed reflecting a lot of my own input and I tested it through 5 iterations. All that is to qualify that I’m not meaning to be an ass when I say this but the new Warthog design is a total miss for me.

The material is stiff and crunchy, more so than fresh dyneema or vx21, and it does not compress well when empty. At least not when it’s relatively new and unworn. Maybe it gets somewhat better with time? The side compression straps seem like a good idea in concept, but they leave loops that will catch on things when climbing, particularly while alpine climbing in tight corners, and gullies.

I love roll top packs. I currently think they are the best solution for adjusting pack volume and size in an environment where a pack needs to be both big and small at the same time. This roll top leaves a big loop that again can get caught on things while climbing. It sticks up behind the head just waiting to snag on things.

The lack of hip padding, or even better, a load bearing hip belt that can be removed is a show stopper for me. It’s a day ruiner to have my shoulders fatigued from the pack weight being on them before I even start climbing. 

NateCwrote:

I am friends with and was at one time an ambassador for Blue Ice. I love the brand and how often they are leading the innovation in the areas of climbing they touch. I’ve spent a TON of time prototyping and developing packs with them. The original Kume ski pack was developed reflecting a lot of my own input and I tested it through 5 iterations. All that is to qualify that I’m not meaning to be an ass when I say this but the new Warthog design is a total miss for me.

The material is stiff and crunchy, more so than fresh dyneema or vx21, and it does not compress well when empty. At least not when it’s relatively new and unworn. Maybe it gets somewhat better with time? The side compression straps seem like a good idea in concept, but they leave loops that will catch on things when climbing, particularly while alpine climbing in tight corners, and gullies.

I love roll top packs. I currently think they are the best solution for adjusting pack volume and size in an environment where a pack needs to be both big and small at the same time. This roll top leaves a big loop that again can get caught on things while climbing. It sticks up behind the head just waiting to snag on things.

The lack of hip padding, or even better, a load bearing hip belt that can be removed is a show stopper for me. It’s a day ruiner to have my shoulders fatigued from the pack weight being on them before I even start climbing. 

Do you have any specific packs you feel execute well on the concept of multi-size-ability? I got the HMG Ice pack for the exact reason as you describe -- it has the ability to compress into a genuinely small pack while also expanding into a proper alpine pack (I have the 40L). While I certainly have critiques for the Ice Pack and more so HMG as a brand, I am very satisfied with its ability to function as what feels like a genuine 20-40L pack. I am curious if you have opinions on the ice pack or others that you think are better? 

I hear you on HMG and the ice pack. I have a lot of things I don’t like about the HMG packs, but the ice pack is currently the best at changing volumes that I’m aware of. 

I’m actually pitching my ideas for a pack that does this well but improves on what I see as shortcomings of HMG. I have a couple different pack designers listening and I’m hoping to see a prototype before the end of the year. 

NateCwrote:

I hear you on HMG and the ice pack. I have a lot of things I don’t like about the HMG packs, but the ice pack is currently the best at changing volumes that I’m aware of. 

I’m actually pitching my ideas for a pack that does this well but improves on what I see as shortcomings of HMG. I have a couple different pack designers listening and I’m hoping to see a prototype before the end of the year. 

That would be sweet! I think a roll top backpack with a real frame (like the Ice Pack) with slightly better material, modularity, and design process could produce something that is as close to a 1 and done mountain pack that you could really feasibly have. I hope you have success and I hope to see how your ideas eventually manifest in a real pack! Are there any fundamental or core changes you have in mind to improve upon the Ice Pack? Non-negotiables for a good alpine pack?

It sounds like you are looking for the Illumination Equipment Psychros. I tried so many packs and even sent emails to several companies with my feedback to the point where I was sent a google doc to provide feedback but Sam (we do share the same first name, thanks Dr. Suess) at Illumination actually took my thoughts and put them into a pack. Happy to post more photos or answer specific questions if folks have them. Out side of getting a prototype pack, I have received nothing from this and have zero stake in the game other than wanting a good pack to get some love. 

bearded samwrote:

It sounds like you are looking for the Illumination Equipment Psychros. I tried so many packs and even sent emails to several companies with my feedback to the point where I was sent a google doc to provide feedback but Sam (we do share the same first name, thanks Dr. Suess) at Illumination actually took my thoughts and put them into a pack. Happy to post more photos or answer specific questions if folks have them. Out side of getting a prototype pack, I have received nothing from this and have zero stake in the game other than wanting a good pack to get some love. 

What is the weight of the Psychros? Looks like an awesome pack!

I agree with the roll-top benefit for the volume adjustment. But it should always be combined with a cinch closure as well, because roll-top only is annoying, whenever you don't need the full/enlarged volume.

Matze Mwrote:

What is the weight of the Psychros? Looks like an awesome pack!

I agree with the roll-top benefit for the volume adjustment. But it should always be combined with a cinch closure as well, because roll-top only is annoying, whenever you don't need the full/enlarged volume.

I will see what I can figure out for weight. It comes with a removable foam pad insert and two aluminum stays that are easily removable in the event one needed to really hump a load. I would say that it is heavier than an ALPHA FL45 but carries dramatically better. So far, I have carried ice gear, backcountry skied, and used it on a local hill climb/dog walk with multiple 70m ropes in it for weight training and I generally forget it is on when wearing it. One of the most noticeable features is the shoulder strap foam. Sam uses a slightly stiffer foam that takes a day or two to break in but carries weight far better than any other strap I have tried. 

Besides the price being a bit dramatic, the Psychros looks awesome for skimo (whatever that is) but has quite a few unneeded features for alpine climbing that just add weight and failure points IMO. 

Bug Boywrote:

Besides the price being a bit dramatic, the Psychros looks awesome for skimo (whatever that is) but has quite a few unneeded features for alpine climbing that just add weight and failure points IMO. 

It's a great looking bag, but I agree with you. If he made a more streamlined version for alpine climbing, and the price was $100-150 less, I'd be interested. For that price, I can buy a lot of subpar packs and keep bitching.