A Warning to Women Regarding A Prominent Valley Climber

I suggest comment bombing his every post on the big wall forum. 

I just want to leave positive feedback for the MP mods who clearly reconsidered their past performance and did things a little differently this time.   

Andrew Ricewrote:

I just want to leave positive feedback for the MP mods who clearly reconsidered their past performance and did things a little differently this time.   

With all due respect Andrew, fuck that. I wanna thank all the women and men who pushed back relentlessly on this thread to get the word out despite clear attempts to prevent that. MP is OnX, in the end a body of ventures and investors. They would 100% behave with all the amorality of a soulless corporation to protect their own interests- which probably would have been for this thread to not exist at all.

MP exists on the free labor of its users, the people who submit the routes and information that make any of this possible. For free. Then MP gets to decide when they don’t find your info beneficial for them and delete it? Yeah fuck that noise. Not giving them credit for the work of others in this case.

EDIT: apogee, where did I say in this entire forum that MP didn’t have the legal right to do what they do, the same way I have the legal right to shut fuck up and save my sanity from this thread? I’m just pointing out that it’s shitty behavior that affects the people that participate. It seems that everyone here is having trouble realizing that you can do legal things and still be an asshole. So thank you for that unwarranted and unneeded explanation of how all of this works. I definitely haven’t heard it on this thread already!

Also, yikes, what’s with all of you insisting on “getting flamed” and “flame on”? Is this really all just some fun internet debate for you? Cause it isn’t for me.

This forum is owned by a privately held company, and has the right to manage it in the way it sees fit for its own interests. This issue of moderation comes up in any forum, and this underlying fact remains the same. Anyone has the right to not participate, or to create their own forum and manage it under their own standards- this has been done several times in the past, and could easily be done again.

This forum also exists in large part due to the voluntary contributions that individuals make with their own content. As is the case across the internet, we/you are the product. The choice to post this content lies with the individual, and there is also the choice to not post it at all (which I am personally highly supportive of).

I'm sure this view will receive lots of flaming, but these hard facts will continue to remain true until someone takes the initiative to create a forum that is managed in the way that so many expect this one to be managed, &/or until an open source climbing resource is created that allows true control to be in the hands of the content contributor. 

Ally Lwrote:

With all due respect Andrew, fuck that. I wanna thank all the women and men who pushed back relentlessly on this thread to get the word out despite clear attempts to prevent that. MP is OnX, in the end a body of ventures and investors. They would 100% behave with all the amorality of a soulless corporation to protect their own interests- which probably would have been for this thread to not exist at all.

MP exists on the free labor of its users, the people who submit the routes and information that make any of this possible. For free. Then MP gets to decide when they don’t find your info beneficial for them and delete it? Yeah fuck that noise. Not giving them credit for the work of others in this case.

The interesting thing is several of PTPP’s supporters have said they hope the people spreading rumors about him get sued.  These are the same people who say that what PTPP is accused of is no different than any man trying to ‘get laid’.  WTF  

One such person contacted me directly and said I better hope PTPP is charged and found guilty else I’d be sued into oblivion.

This is very disturbing for many reasons. 

Chad Millerwrote:

The interesting thing is several of PTPP’s supporters have said they hope the people spreading rumors about him get sued.  These are the same people who say that what PTPP is accused of is no different than any man trying to ‘get laid’.  WTF  

One such person contacted me directly and said I better hope PTPP is charged and found guilty else I’d be sued into oblivion.

This is very disturbing for many reasons. 

Jesus, that’s nuts. I’d be naming names if it were me.

Apogee (and others): the amount of tone policing by men in this thread has been disappointing, if not surprising. Someone, maybe it was even Ally, called it out a page or two back. The entire thread has been full of people pounding on the same table. You’ve got nothing to contribute here, it’s already been said over and over and over again. 

Chad Millerwrote:

The interesting thing is several of PTPP’s supporters have said they hope the people spreading rumors about him get sued.  These are the same people who say that what PTPP is accused of is no different than any man trying to ‘get laid’.  WTF  

One such person contacted me directly and said I better hope PTPP is charged and found guilty else I’d be sued into oblivion.

This is very disturbing for many reasons. 

Name and shame. 

'Tone policing'? Try reality check.

To the extent that comments have been made here about the person in this thread that have been made within the framework of how this forum is expected to be used, I've been right there with the rest of you pounding on that same table (whether you know it or not). 

But when the comments turn to whining about 'free speech' issues over and over and over on a privately owned forum, that's where I call BS.

apogeewrote:

But when the comments turn to whining about 'free speech' issues over and over and over on a privately owned forum, that's where I call BS.

You are fundamentally misunderstanding their arguments. I would explain it but it has been explained numerous times better than I can, so maybe just read those same comments again. 

Ally Lwrote:

Also, yikes, what’s with all of you insisting on “getting flamed” and “flame on”? Is this really all just some fun internet debate for you? Cause it isn’t for me.

Don't read too much into it. In my case it's an open invitation to others to provide criticism/feedback that I assure you I value and welcome

You are fighting the good fight here, but the vast majority willing to post in this thread are allies, albeit with more to learn, not your adversaries.

Thank you for your contributions to the thread. 

Ally Lwrote:

With all due respect Andrew, fuck that. I wanna thank all the women and men who pushed back relentlessly on this thread to get the word out despite clear attempts to prevent that. MP is OnX, in the end a body of ventures and investors. They would 100% behave with all the amorality of a soulless corporation to protect their own interests- which probably would have been for this thread to not exist at all.

MP exists on the free labor of its users, the people who submit the routes and information that make any of this possible. For free. Then MP gets to decide when they don’t find your info beneficial for them and delete it? Yeah fuck that noise. Not giving them credit for the work of others in this case.

EDIT: apogee, where did I say in this entire forum that MP didn’t have the legal right to do what they do, the same way I have the legal right to shut fuck up and save my sanity from this thread? I’m just pointing out that it’s shitty behavior that affects the people that participate. It seems that everyone here is having trouble realizing that you can do legal things and still be an asshole. So thank you for that unwarranted and unneeded explanation of how all of this works. I definitely haven’t heard it on this thread already!

Also, yikes, what’s with all of you insisting on “getting flamed” and “flame on”? Is this really all just some fun internet debate for you? Cause it isn’t for me.

What is it for you, if you think it is just some fun internet debate for people.  Nobody thinks this is fun. But this temper tantrum is ridiculous.  Were you assaulted by ptpp?  Other than Ryan Sheridan, what first hand experience of ptpp behavior has been documented. By no means am I justifying bad behavior. I just find the rage bandwagon interesting. And congrats on bringing corporate America into your rage post.  Just checking all the boxes. You missed free Palestine. But why not go for it now. 

trailridgewrote:

What is it for you, if you think it is just some fun internet debate for people.  Nobody thinks this is fun. But this temper tantrum is ridiculous.  Were you assaulted by ptpp?  Other than Ryan Sheridan, what first hand experience of ptpp behavior has been documented. By no means am I justifying bad behavior. I just find the rage bandwagon interesting. And congrats on bringing corporate America into your rage post.  Just checking all the boxes. You missed free Palestine. But why not go for it now. 

My guy. Do you not feel the misogonistic undertone of this?
You not see Shipoopoi talk about his wife's interaction?
Maybe Kurts wife? whats the number that makes it important?
Are husbands not 1st hand info? maybe 1.5?

....let alone the additional talking down up there. Jeebus.

Throughout this thread, there has been universal revulsion and condemnation at the actions of the person who is in the center of this issue- no-one has excused or supported his behaviors. Along the way, though, there have been some comments regarding the process in which individuals are accused on the internet, and comments about how MP has a right to moderate this forum in the way of their choosing. Apparently to many minds, if one calls out any other consideration in the process, and unless you are a regularly posting part of the raging masses with their pitchforks ready to burn someone at the stake, you are a supporter of the person in question, and therefore part of the problem. (That kind of divisiveness is central to our culture these days, so maybe not so surprising.) But it is also possible to believe that someone is destructively wrong in their actions, while at the same time believing there is a rational way to bring that to balance.

The observations around ironies of not being able to fully voice one’s views in a forum that is centrally based on the backs of the contributors are quite valid. But it also immediately results in the question to be asked: why contribute to it, then?

There is a time and a place. This isn't a thread about free speech or politics. Gotta agree with Ally on this one. Take the philosophical debates elsewhere.

Although I do respect that the mods have left most of this up. I'm sure they aren't paid well, if at all. Lord knows I wouldn't want the responsibility of moderating this place.

apogeewrote:

But it is also possible to believe that someone is destructively wrong in their actions, while at the same time believing there is a rational way to bring that to balance.

The observations around ironies of not being able to fully voice one’s views in a forum that is centrally based on the backs of the contributors are quite valid. But it also immediately results in the question to be asked: why contribute to it, then?

Dude, knock it off, you’re being a jackass. If you can’t see how the bolded quote above is tone policing, man, I don’t know what to say.

Yeesh. 

Slim Pickenswrote:

Dude, knock it off, you’re being a jackass. If you can’t see how the bolded quote above is tone policing, man, I don’t know what to say.

Yeesh. 

It seems like in your pursuit of attempting to enforce your nonsensical ”theories”, you have transformed into exactly the type of being that you claim to be opposed to. 

Scratch an ally, find a misogynist. 

Scratch an Ally, find a warrior.  

trailridgewrote:

What is it for you, if you think it is just some fun internet debate for people.  Nobody thinks this is fun. But this temper tantrum is ridiculous.  Were you assaulted by ptpp?  Other than Ryan Sheridan, what first hand experience of ptpp behavior has been documented. By no means am I justifying bad behavior. I just find the rage bandwagon interesting. And congrats on bringing corporate America into your rage post.  Just checking all the boxes. You missed free Palestine. But why not go for it now. 

The tone of your comment says a lot more about your character than the discussion you’re trying to mock for attention. When someone’s first instinct is to belittle people raising serious allegations and reduce it to a “temper tantrum,” it usually signals a pretty stunning lack of empathy and maturity. You’re not asking thoughtful questions—you’re sneering from the sidelines and pretending cynicism is intelligence.

That whole “checking boxes” rant just makes you sound like someone who can’t engage with the substance of an issue, so you fall back on tired sarcasm and culture-war buzzwords to look clever. It’s the rhetorical equivalent of a middle-school eye roll.

If your contribution to a serious topic is basically “lol everyone’s just raging,” it doesn’t make you the calm, rational observer you think it does. It just makes you look dismissive, small-minded, and desperate to sound edgy while avoiding the uncomfortable reality that real people are talking about real harm. 

Chad Millerwrote:

The tone of your comment says a lot more about your character than the discussion you’re trying to mock for attention. When someone’s first instinct is to belittle people raising serious allegations and reduce it to a “temper tantrum,” it usually signals a pretty stunning lack of empathy and maturity. You’re not asking thoughtful questions—you’re sneering from the sidelines and pretending cynicism is intelligence.

That whole “checking boxes” rant just makes you sound like someone who can’t engage with the substance of an issue, so you fall back on tired sarcasm and culture-war buzzwords to look clever. It’s the rhetorical equivalent of a middle-school eye roll.

If your contribution to a serious topic is basically “lol everyone’s just raging,” it doesn’t make you the calm, rational observer you think it does. It just makes you look dismissive, small-minded, and desperate to sound edgy while avoiding the uncomfortable reality that real people are talking about real harm. 

Genuinely, I think you ought to share who has contacted you in defense of PTPP. These are the exact men who enable rape culture, and they should be dealt with the same

Jared Ewrote:

Genuinely, I think you ought to share who has contacted you in defense of PTPP. These are the exact men who enable rape culture, and they should be dealt with the same

The lawyer I hired and spoke with about what I can legally say without being exposed to lawsuits advised me not to.

I am able to say if you look at the Super Topo Refugees FB page the posts are publicly available.