Crag Bag Advice?

Hi, I’m looking to buy a crag backpack and would like input on this purchase. I want a bag that is large enough to fit a 70m rope, tarp, 12 draws, belay devices, slings, helmet, harness, two pairs of shoes, extra carabiners, chalk bag, food, water, camera and lens in a camera cube, first-aid kit, headlamp, jacket, clip stick—basically, everything but the kitchen sink (I tend to overpack). I’m particularly concerned about having the space in the pack for my camera. For the foreseeable future, I’m just doing single-pitch sport climbs and only need to get from the car/ campsite to the crag, so no super long approaches or trad gear. I tend to like pockets, though I am not opposed to putting a small organiser bag in my packs. My main questions are: how big a pack do I really need, and what bag should I buy?

Presently, I’m looking at:

BD Creek 50:

This pack seems to get a lot of recommendations, and if I can, I’d like to get a BD pack since I’m able to get them at a discount atm. My biggest gripe is that the zipper doesn’t go down the whole side, or wrap around and open up like a clamshell, and I fear I might not like that, but I’m not sure if that's actually a problem, or if I’m being a little nitpicky. I like the relatively large front pocket.

BD Crag 40:

This pack seems similar to the Creek 50, but is noticeably cheaper, still cheaper than the Creek 35 too. Is that just due to the build quality and material choice? Is that actually a cause for concern, or is this pack good/rugged enough? I have the same concern regarding the zipper as the Creek 50. Is 40L big enough?

BD Pipe Dream 45:

This bag seems interesting. Is it doubling as a thin pad a legit good feature, or just a gimmick? I guess it might be nice to sit on between climbs, but I also just have a small foam seat pad I can carry around, I guess I could lie on this or use it while bouldering. Is its shape conducive to carrying gear? Is it too tall a pack for someone with a shorter frame?

Mammut Neon 45/55:

I’m leaning towards the 55-liter version due to the size, but the women’s 45 is on sale atm, would the 45 be large enough? I like the clamshell opening of the back panel. Kind of bummed that this bag, and many others, don’t have side water bottle pockets. 

Mountain Hardwear Crag Wagon 45/60:

Has this bag been discontinued? I see the 45 on sale in the outlet section of REI’s website, but it’s the M/L version, which is probably too big for me, and I can’t find the 60 being sold anywhere. I like the full clamshell opening on the front, and I really dig the purple interior fabric of the black multi colorway. 

Blue Ice Moonlight 55:

Side pockets!! I have a similar concern regarding the zipper as the Creek 50 and Crag 40. It can carry a hydration pack, though Idk how much I’ll actually use that. 

Patagonia Cragsmith 45:

Side pockets!! Once again, I like that this has a nice, big clamshell opening. I like that it has a larger top zippered pocket for smaller items and such.

Little aside, for the bags that don’t come with a tarp, what tarp/ rope bag do you guys use?

Thanks for reading (and replying).

I’m a big fan of my Moonlight 55. The three, different zippered pockets are clutch for staying organized and it easily swallows up everything I put in it.

I had a Cragsmith 45 before this and it wasn’t nearly large enough. That, and I learned on my first tyrolean traverse that you might lose things stuffed in those mesh side pockets. 

I have used and abused my Creek 50 for about 6 years now, and it is the bag I bring when I am bringing the kitchen sink, and I pretty much am always carrying both rack and rope. That said, the side zipper barely does much except allow you to pull your tangled gear slings out the top easier, it's not really side access. But it's comfy and durable and has enough smaller pockets for organizing. I wish it was a full panel-zip-open like the CragWagon but alas it is not. I like it, but don't love it, but it hauls mondo loads. If you are NOT hauling trad gear, I bet the Creek 40 would be a good size for you since you bring a ton of other gear. I haven't done a side-by-side compare but I think the Creek 40 and the CragWagon 60 are likely pretty similar volumes.

If you can find a Crag Wagon 60 anywhere before they disappear, I highly recommend it. The number is somewhat meaningless, as the "60L" here is noticeably small than the Creek 50, but it is much easier to get at your gear by opening the whole flap. My only gripe is that the small pocket and the main pocket zippers open in opposite directions so if you open the big flap while the small flap is unzipped you will dump all your gear out of the small pockets. Minor issue, but I love that pack otherwise. I imagine the 45L would be too small for how much gear you want to bring, especially a full size camera and lenses since I use mine for sport climbing (and I also bring a bunch of extra gear), but I haven't seen a 45 in person.

The Pipe Dream is an interesting bag..... favorite of some of my sport climber friends who like to open it up into a full-blown yard sale and spend half the day laying around on the padded panels. Other than the small brain, it has no extra pockets. Emphasis on yard sale, as it is a PROCESS watching people re-pack the pipe dream, especially if its full. It's like refolding an origami tube and then stuffing everything in from the top.... I don't get the appeal personally, but I really don't like single-tube backpacks, and I have a small crazy creek roll-up chair that is super comfy so that's good enough. 

Crag Wagon all the way. I have a Creek too and it's trash compared to the Crag Wagon. Better made, nice top and side access to the pack, carries better, I could go on and on. 

The Mammut Neon 55 fits the most stuff of any of these crag bags I’ve tried yet. It will easily fit everything you described there. The Crag Wagons are cool but they are tapered at the bottom so don’t stand up well and also don’t fit nearly as much stuff. I also like that the whole bag is padded and reinforced and the zippers are robust. The back panel opening gives you almost total access to everything. For a clamshell top type bag I think it’s the best if you want to bring a ton of stuff.

Become an AAC member and get access to Expert Voice and you can get this bag for like $110. 

Andrew Nguyenwrote:

BD Pipe Dream 45:

This bag seems interesting. Is it doubling as a thin pad a legit good feature, or just a gimmick? I guess it might be nice to sit on between climbs, but I also just have a small foam seat pad I can carry around, I guess I could lie on this or use it while bouldering. Is its shape conducive to carrying gear? Is it too tall a pack for someone with a shorter frame?

I love my pipedream, pretty comfy, carries well. It expands to carry quite a lot of gear, and I think the brain is massive, easy to take off so keep valuables like phones out of the way. No issue fitting a triple rack and rope + personal kit, a clip stick basically disappears inside it because of its length. Depends on how short you are, 5, 6 and under you might have issues. 

It's infinitely useful, rope protector for TRS, sleeping pad, rope tarp, great for changing shoes on, I've wrapped it round my self when it was cold and windy at the crag, only limited by your imagination. 

Blue Ice Moonlight 55:

Side pockets!! I have a similar concern regarding the zipper as the Creek 50 and Crag 40. It can carry a hydration pack, though Idk how much I’ll actually use that. 

Side pockets are nice, my GF has one and I borrow it now and then, carries heavy loads amazingly, super comfy, and the two sizes are great.  Fits a solid size rack. 

Andrew Nguyenwrote:

Patagonia Cragsmith 45:

Side pockets!! Once again, I like that this has a nice, big clamshell opening. I like that it has a larger top zippered pocket for smaller items and such.

The crag smith has side pockets but unfortunately the material isn't that bomber and has a tendency to wear out prematurely.  And also unfortunately they are hard to repair given where they are on the pack and Patagonia said they won't repair them via Worn Wear. The top zipper that gives access to the main compartment is undersized and also wears out.  Patagonia has repaired that zipper for me but with the original sized zipper.  When that zipper wore out on another Cragsmith I had I replaced it with the same size zipper that is on the back panel opening and it works way better. 

 I wish the pack was offered in a 55L and sometimes I struggle to get everything in the 45L.  I'm 5'3" so I should be size S/M in the pack but I own one of the M/L because it is probably 5 or so liters larger.  I'm pretty close to maxing out the waste belt and shoulder straps but it does work.  I still find it to be a really comfortable pack even though it is a bit big for me.

I have absolutely beat the shit out of the Creek 50 for the past 5 years. For me, its carries heavy loads extremely well. I find it to to be a super comfy pack.
Would recommend 100%. It is not a haul bag, despite it taking design notes from them. front pouch with two zipered pockets is nice, and it is nice to be able to shove layers on there.

That being said, I just swooped the crag wagon 45, and the thing is sweeeeet. I think it a superior bag to the creek, albeit, to carry as much gear as the creek 50 I would likely have to carry the rope on the outside. Which is well designed to do, unlike the creek.
One gripe about that is lack of side straps to "lock down" the rope on either side of the bag. I'm likely gonna fashion something to do so as it has some bar tacked webbing on the sides that would be easy to make somethin' happen, that and add a removable waterbottle sleeve option.
Time will tell, but I have always gotten a bit of bag envy seeing folks with the crag wagons.

As others have said, Creek 50 is a good pack but the side zip is indeed pretty useless and I have to totally unpack and repack the thing anytime we move walls. 

For what it's worth, BD's Creek pack is a knockoff of the OG -- the Misty Mountain Gorge Pack. Just saying.

That said, I haven't owned either one so I can't speak to quality.  

Metolius Freerider, on sale right now via Metolius directly too. It sounds like whatever pack you have, you’ll fill up, and this one is great for cragging, especially if you aren’t even bringing a rack, just draws and a rope. Plenty roomy. (Edit to add: No pockets other than in the lid though, depending on how much of a dealbreaker that is.)

There’s a thread about this every year. Crag wagon seems to be the standard for comfort (if it fits you), creek is durable, easy to get and lots of folks get a deal. I ended up with the Arc’teryx Konseal and it’s great. Not sure if it will be back for this spring but there’s likely a product drop next week on their website. Mammut I have just seen too many durability issues. Other options are the RAB Rouge and I just saw a crag pack from Edelrid, the Crag Jack, yesterday online while avoiding homework. It has a unique zipper system (unique doesn’t necessarily mean better).  

If you wait a bit, Ortovox is debuting its Affinity 42 crag bag this spring as well. If it lives up to their other packs, it’ll be comfortable, thoughtfully designed, and durable. 

Another vote for Metious haul packs. I have the Sentinel for cragging and I find it to be the ideal size. My partner has a slightly smaller one that he finds is comfortable enough for alpine rock routes in addition to cragging.

I had a Creek 50 for around 10 years.  It was a simple, tough bag.  Eventually I tore the shoulder straps off from hauling it up and over my shoulder.  I never liked the pocket system.  It was very easy to overstuff the pack and then the pocket wouldn’t zip up.  

I now have a Cragwagon 60 and prefer it.  It is quite similar to the Creek, but the zipper system is better.  The pocket is more zippable, but it’s smaller.  I think their capacity is quite similar.  I never found either one to stand up all that well.

The Trango Crag Pack 2.0 is worth a mention. A bit on the small side and probably less durable, but it has massive outside pockets and is very affordable.  I can’t vouch for it, but I kind of want one.

I forgpot to mention sterlings offering. I think this os a super solid offering.
The VERTAC 60 (or 40)

Also they are making some very basic bags worth looking at if you like super simple cycndrical pits as your bag.
The Carrier rope bag

My wife has the Sterling bag and it is great. It’s also a great travel bag

I went from a Creek 50 which I loved to the Pipedream which I love more but also kinda hate at times. 

The Creek 50 carried very well but I hated digging through it to find stuff. I would tell myself just dump it once at the crag but couldn't get myself to do it. So id frustratingly fish around looking for that one thing I needed that somehow always seemed to be at the bottom of the giant bag. 

I gifted to a friend who lost everything in the Eaton Fire here in Southern California. 

Enters the Pipedream. Its really great to be forced to open the whole thing up and boom, easy access to your whole kit. But as mentioned above repacking is a bit of a pain. I have resorted to having organized packing cubes that make the repacking easier but I'm still the last to be ready to hike out. But overall it's been worth keeping it.

I love my moonlight. I have a neon I don't really use anymore and honestly didn't like how it carried nor the very limited carry options. I kick the crap out of my moonlight as it's my general+family cragging bag and it's done great so far. Carries well, the side pockets are perfect for snacks+drinks, the main compartment is super accessible and the various handles make it a dream to reposition as you don't risk changing the orientation regardless of being upright or on its back. 

I've harped on it before and I'll do it again: The Blue Ice Moonlight 55 (and the 35, for that matter) is phenomenal. Even once it's full, you can fit a tall Nalgene in the side pocket, tightly. It carries the load well and the zipper is great. Just get it and never worry again about if you bought the right one. I have one from when they first came out, so it only has a single zipper down the front. I believe the current ones have a bidirectional zipper, which my 35L Moonlight has, and it's a great improvement. I'd recommend this bag heavily over all the others you listed. The only thing I would add to it is the ability to easily strap something to the side, but those things can just get strapped to the top.

Caveat: my buddy got his hands on a Crag Wagon 60 and I will begrudgingly admit it's pretty damn sweet.

I have both the BD Creek and Patagonia packs.  They are both useful in certain ways but neither are perfect.  I mainly sport climb now and the Pata is fine but not room is left after rope, draws, and lunch.  Water fortunately goes in outside pockets and helmet straps to outside too.  It rides well but I wish it was a tad bigger.  
BD pack is bomber and roses really well. I use it when I’m bringing all my heavy bolting gear but lack of outside pockets got it out of the main rotation.
either will do what your wanting to do 

But if I had only one, I’d get the BD pack because I like bringing a lot of stuff and hate wasting time packing and repacking.