Rocky Talkies —> mountain versus expedition radios

Andrew Rice wrote:

A couple reasons. First and foremost, the lanyard hole is on the left of the radio when clipped to your harness but the natural place to clip the radio is on the right side of the harness to avoid the buckle. With the keychain through the hole, when you take up the radio you get a very uncomfortable torquing from the keeper cord. Just from the handful of times I was testing it, you could see the metal keychain already wearing on the hole's plastic, so I had little faith it would hold up over hundreds of such motions. 

The second reason was that the belt clip's top attachment is not very secure. The baling wire better secured the belt clip while giving me a convenient place to clip the keychain in a much more ergonomic position. And the total weight is still 80g less than a RT.

Adam Stone wrote:

I am a licensed ham radio operator, and a bit of a radio nerd.  My take on the Rockie-talkies is....they are not worth the price tag.  The only thing they offer over other radios is an attachment point for a carabiner.  The Mountain are 2W FRS radios, and the Expedition are 5W GMRS radios, requiring a GMRS license (no testing).  I use the Tidradio TD-M11 which are 2W FRS radio, water resistant, with weather band.  They are less than $40 for a set, for basically the same radio as the mountain.  They include a nice clip holster, lanyard, and for $15 you can add a pair of handheld mics. They are also programable via Chirp software.  

FRS, GMRS, or ham radio 2M, 70cm bands are line of sight.  So good for a few miles depending on terrain.  Just for your knowledge, FRS & GMRS share a set of frequencies in the 70CM band or 462-467MHZ, where Ham radio is 420-450MHZ.  

The only advantage the GMRS radios have is repeaters, where you can significantly extend your range, if there is a repeater within your vicinity.  There are some out there, but in my limited experience, they tend to be close to city areas.     

So you can buy expensive rockie talkies, or off the shelf FRS or GMRS radios for a lot less money. 

Adam, I'm checking those TD-M11 radios out on the TIDRADIO site. Can you confirm that the band can be programmed back and forth between FRS when in the US and PMR466 when in Europe? If so that would be a real benefit for an upcoming trip that I have planned. 

Adam Stone wrote:

I am a licensed ham radio operator, and a bit of a radio nerd.  My take on the Rockie-talkies is....they are not worth the price tag.  The only thing they offer over other radios is an attachment point for a carabiner.  The Mountain are 2W FRS radios, and the Expedition are 5W GMRS radios, requiring a GMRS license (no testing).  I use the Tidradio TD-M11 which are 2W FRS radio, water resistant, with weather band.  They are less than $40 for a set, for basically the same radio as the mountain.  They include a nice clip holster, lanyard, and for $15 you can add a pair of handheld mics. They are also programable via Chirp software.  

FRS, GMRS, or ham radio 2M, 70cm bands are line of sight.  So good for a few miles depending on terrain.  Just for your knowledge, FRS & GMRS share a set of frequencies in the 70CM band or 462-467MHZ, where Ham radio is 420-450MHZ.  

The only advantage the GMRS radios have is repeaters, where you can significantly extend your range, if there is a repeater within your vicinity.  There are some out there, but in my limited experience, they tend to be close to city areas.     

So you can buy expensive rockie talkies, or off the shelf FRS or GMRS radios for a lot less money. 

I’ve got a question you might be able to answer, I bought the Tidradio TD-M11 radios and I’m designing a case for them to be 3d printed and I had a question. If I added a case over then antenna part made up of 1-2 mm of 3d printed tpu rubber, would that negatively impact the capabilities of the radio because the antenna section is impaired? And is there anything else I need to worry about having a covering over the body of the radio? 

I picked up M11 from AliExpress at a great price and have been testing it out while ice climbing—so far, so good! One concern is that the volume dial might turn if it rubs against gear or something. 

Like others have mentioned, the lanyard hole feels a bit too flimsy to clip a carabiner directly. To fix this, I removed the belt clip (15g) and wrapped the M11 with 1 meter of 2mm Dyneema cord (only 2.5g). I used a double sheet bend to join the ends, then clipped my carabiner through both the cord wrap and the original keyhole as a backup. Haven’t field-tested this setup yet, but it feels very secure for now.

Does the TD-M11 have customizable privacy codes for the standard 22 FRS/GMRS channels? Didn't see any specific mention of that on the Tidradio site. I have probably used my Rocky Talkies for skiing more than climbing the last few years, and the standard channels get pretty crowded if you can't set your own privacy code to tune out the other groups. So if these M11s don't have privacy codes, and you ever want to talk to people who use Rocky Talkies, you'll have to convince them to go back to the standard channels and hear everybody else's conversations too. 

Yes, the TD-M11 radios are very customizable. You can even set different tx/rx CTCSS codes, if you'd like. You have to set all of this up with your phone via bluetooth--I don't believe there's a way to do it on the radio itself. I have my TD-M11s communicating with all of my Rocky Talkies just fine using the same codes.

Ryan Franz wrote:

Yes, the TD-M11 radios are very customizable. You can even set different tx/rx CTCSS codes, if you'd like. You have to set all of this up with your phone via bluetooth--I don't believe there's a way to do it on the radio itself. I have my TD-M11s communicating with all of my Rocky Talkies just fine using the same codes.

I’d be very curious to hear more about this, I don’t know much about radios but having them by interchangeable sounds amazing 

There is a free app (odmaster) from Tidradio which allows you to change a lot of settings. It's not very user friendly, but I think most people should be able to figure out how to set privacy codes. It's kind of a nerd's dream--if settings like "compander on/off" set your heart a-flutter then you'll love it. As a hopeless nerd, but not of the HAM radio flavor, this is a whole new world of fun for me. There are settings in there that I have found no documentation on whatsoever, and remain a mystery. Lots of the settings would definitely break Rocky Talkie compatibility.

Oh, and after I wrote my previous post, I discovered that the radios can "crack" an incoming signal and copy it, using only the buttons on the radio, so you should be able to use that functionality to copy your Rocky Talkie codes without using the app (I haven't yet tested this, but plan to this evening using the chinglish manual). I like this approach, since you could match CTCSS codes with friends in the wild without fumbling around with your phone and apps and such.

There are other ways to program which apparently offer even more versatility (CHIRP, CPS, etc). CHIRP has an open-source github project. I've yet to go down that rabbit hole, and I believe there is a chance you could brick your radio.

Caleb Hils wrote:

I’ve got a question you might be able to answer, I bought the Tidradio TD-M11 radios and I’m designing a case for them to be 3d printed and I had a question. If I added a case over then antenna part made up of 1-2 mm of 3d printed tpu rubber, would that negatively impact the capabilities of the radio because the antenna section is impaired? And is there anything else I need to worry about having a covering over the body of the radio? 

I made a TPU 3D printed case for these a while ago but didn’t cover the antenna. The only issue I observed was that depending on the thickness it can be harder to push the ptt button. I can upload the STL if you’d like.

The only downside I’ve noticed to these are that they don’t seem to meet their ip67 rating, which should be submersible up to 1m for 30 minutes. I dropped one in about 1m for 5 minutes and it promptly died (which is unsurprising. All the ports are not well sealed). The company did send me a new one free though.

Awesome, thanks for the extra details. Having some way to match your friend's frequency on the fly when meeting up outside without needing a phone app is ideal, but I guess it's not a huge deal as long as there are privacy channels.
Bumping the question that I think remains unanswered: Can these be legally used in Europe by changing to PMR466 frequencies? 

Daniel M wrote:

I made a TPU 3D printed case for these a while ago but didn’t cover the antenna. The only issue I observed was that depending on the thickness it can be harder to push the ptt button. I can upload the STL if you’d like.

I would really love to see it if you are willing? 

K Go wrote:Bumping the question that I think remains unanswered: Can these be legally used in Europe by changing to PMR466 frequencies? 

Thanks for the bump. I'd really like to know this answer and haven't been able to confidently determine it by searching the internet. 

Considering purchasing the TD-M11, I found this 3D printable mounting clip that has a volume adjust protection piece. 

I don't love the design of the clip, but possibly the file could be adapted better for climbing... 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7216578

NateC wrote:

Thanks for the bump. I'd really like to know this answer and haven't been able to confidently determine it by searching the internet. 

I asked a while ago and practical answer is no, unless you get a ham radio. Legal requirement for a PMR466 radio is that the radio only operates on those frequencies. Rocky Talkie has come out with a separate EU radio.

James C wrote:

I asked a while ago and practical answer is no, unless you get a ham radio. Legal requirement for a PMR466 radio is that the radio only operates on those frequencies. Rocky Talkie has come out with a separate EU radio.

Thank you for clearing that up for me!

NateC wrote:

Thank you for clearing that up for me!

These things are so cheap it'd probably just be easier to just buy an EU-compatible pair for Euro trips. Four M11s (at $30 per pair) are still half the price of one Rocky Talkie.

MB MB wrote:

Considering purchasing the TD-M11, I found this 3D printable mounting clip that has a volume adjust protection piece. 

I don't love the design of the clip, but possibly the file could be adapted better for climbing... 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7216578

I am currently working on developing a poor man’s Rocky talkie case with a similar carabiner mount to the Rocky talkie, hoping to have it usable sooner than later 

Caleb Hils wrote:

I am currently working on developing a poor man’s Rocky talkie case with a similar carabiner mount to the Rocky talkie, hoping to have it usable sooner than later 

Here ya go: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M1XYQCfH85Q_1cN93whQ07sGJc6FQfhZ/view?usp=drive_link

Feel free to use/make this/give it away, but please don’t sell it commercially. Standard disclaimers apply - this is released with no warranty and if the carabiner loop breaks and it falls on your partners head, it’s not my fault. That said, they’ve been plenty robust for me. 

This was designed to use the petzl Ange but lmk if you want a different sized carabiner hole. I can send some photos of the finished product later. I usually print it carabiner loop up out of TPU (with supports) to hide the rough surface on the back of the walkie talkie.

Daniel M wrote:

Here ya go: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M1XYQCfH85Q_1cN93whQ07sGJc6FQfhZ/view?usp=drive_link

Feel free to use/make this/give it away, but please don’t sell it commercially.

This was designed to use the petzl Ange but lmk if you want a different sized carabiner hole. I can send some photos of the finished product later. I usually print it carabiner loop up out of TPU (with supports) to hide the rough surface on the back of the walkie talkie.

Sweet man! I like the design! I am likely planning to sell my own design eventually, but I’ve started mine and we both took different approaches but I really appreciate you sharing the file!