Rocky Talkies —> mountain versus expedition radios

I know there are a few threads on here about rocky talkies, but I haven’t been able to find this information. Does anyone use the expedition radios for climbing, and if so, how do you like them and are they worth it over the normal mountain radios?? Very curious about input and ideas

Would also be curious to know the difference. Been contemplating finally jumping aboard the RT bandwagon.

Expedition radios transmit at 5W, which means you need a GMRS license to use them and have to follow certain rules when communicating with them (can’t use universal emergency words like “mayday”, “SOS”, etc., can’t use obscene language, can’t talk in codes, discuss breaking laws, etc.) You also likely can’t use them in any other country without getting whatever license that country requires.

It’s probably not too much of a hassle, but it’s probably way overkill for climbing use. Certainly overkill for communicating with your partner on multipitch routes. The upside is stronger broadcasting signal and increased range. When you’re only a couple hundred feet from your partner at the most, neither matters much.

Both radios use the same 22 channel frequency bands and are interoperable.

The mountain radio is an FRS radio meaning that it can only transmit on those channels at up to 2W. As Dave said, the expedition radio can transmit up to 5W which will give further range, but does require getting a GMRS license. The only time I have ever noticed a real difference in transmit range was on Denali (i.e. an expedition).

I've found both radios to be pretty similarly susceptible to losing signal when out of line of sight over a distance. They work very well for communicating within a rope team, but can be spotty for communicating between teams. I pretty much always have my mountain radio when multi-pitch climbing or ski touring. 

You also likely can’t use them in any other country without getting whatever license that country requires.

IANAL, but there is a lot of laws around using radios in other countries. My general understanding is that either of these radios is basically unusable outside the US (or Canada for the mountain radio), but I'm sure people do.

Rocky talkie's note on international use

The 5Ws are also waterproof while 2Ws are only splash proof. I've had the 2Ws fail in a rainstorm and get water damage after they dried out. 

Radios seem to obsolete these days due to the availability of cellphone compatibility to starlink. so cellphones that you use for your daily vloggs can be used inplace of radios, just saying

Miller Rodgers wrote:

Radios seem to obsolete these days due to the availability of cellphone compatibility to starlink. so cellphones that you use for your daily vloggs can be used inplace of radios, just saying

What? I don’t know anyone that uses phones to communicate with their rope team 

Miller Rodgers wrote:

Radios seem to obsolete these days due to the availability of cellphone compatibility to starlink. so cellphones that you use for your daily vloggs can be used inplace of radios, just saying

This is a bot and looks the account is gone.

Peter Y wrote:

The 5Ws are also waterproof while 2Ws are only splash proof. I've had the 2Ws fail in a rainstorm and get water damage after they dried out. 

This plus the previous comment about access to weather stations seems very attractive to me, but it seems like there isn’t a definitive answer, although it may make sense for one group of the party to have a 5 w and one to have whichever they want 

I am a licensed ham radio operator, and a bit of a radio nerd.  My take on the Rockie-talkies is....they are not worth the price tag.  The only thing they offer over other radios is an attachment point for a carabiner.  The Mountain are 2W FRS radios, and the Expedition are 5W GMRS radios, requiring a GMRS license (no testing).  I use the Tidradio TD-M11 which are 2W FRS radio, water resistant, with weather band.  They are less than $40 for a set, for basically the same radio as the mountain.  They include a nice clip holster, lanyard, and for $15 you can add a pair of handheld mics. They are also programable via Chirp software.  

FRS, GMRS, or ham radio 2M, 70cm bands are line of sight.  So good for a few miles depending on terrain.  Just for your knowledge, FRS & GMRS share a set of frequencies in the 70CM band or 462-467MHZ, where Ham radio is 420-450MHZ.  

The only advantage the GMRS radios have is repeaters, where you can significantly extend your range, if there is a repeater within your vicinity.  There are some out there, but in my limited experience, they tend to be close to city areas.     

So you can buy expensive rockie talkies, or off the shelf FRS or GMRS radios for a lot less money. 

Adam Stone wrote:

I am a licensed ham radio operator, and a bit of a radio nerd.  My take on the Rockie-talkies is....they are not worth the price tag.  The only thing they offer over other radios is an attachment point for a carabiner.  The Mountain are 2W FRS radios, and the Expedition are 5W GMRS radios, requiring a GMRS license (no testing).  I use the Tidradio TD-M11 which are 2W FRS radio, water resistant, with weather band.  They are less than $40 for a set, for basically the same radio as the mountain.  They include a nice clip holster, lanyard, and for $15 you can add a pair of handheld mics. They are also programable via Chirp software.  

FRS, GMRS, or ham radio 2M, 70cm bands are line of sight.  So good for a few miles depending on terrain.  Just for your knowledge, FRS & GMRS share a set of frequencies in the 70CM band or 462-467MHZ, where Ham radio is 420-450MHZ.  

The only advantage the GMRS radios have is repeaters, where you can significantly extend your range, if there is a repeater within your vicinity.  There are some out there, but in my limited experience, they tend to be close to city areas.     

So you can buy expensive rockie talkies, or off the shelf FRS or GMRS radios for a lot less money. 

Extremely useful info. And those TD-M11's look perfect. My question is how can you securely attach a carabiner to one to carry on your harness? 

That honestly is the only reason I was thinking of jumping aboard the RT bandwagon, because the cheap Chinese radios I currently have are extremely annoying to use due to my subpar makeshift harness connection (I ended up running a keychain carabiner through the lanyard attachment point).

I came across this guy who 3D printed an attachment point. But for those us without a 3D printer or the knowhow to use one, I'm struggling to come up with a good answer.

Mike Larson wrote:

Extremely useful info. And those TD-M11's look perfect. My question is how can you securely attach a carabiner to one to carry on your harness? 

That honestly is the only reason I was thinking of jumping aboard the RT bandwagon, because the cheap Chinese radios I currently have are extremely annoying to use due to my subpar makeshift harness connection (I ended up running a keychain carabiner through the lanyard attachment point).

I came across this guy who 3D printed an attachment point. But for those us without a 3D printer or the knowhow to use one, I'm struggling to come up with a good answer.

Those look pretty neat! I happen to have a 3d printer and would be more than happy to print you or design and print you some attachement pieces. My only concern with the design shown is the radios only being 1 watt. I wonder the range on them and if they hold up as well as RT’s. Either way send me a pm if you’re interested

Mike Larson wrote:

Extremely useful info. And those TD-M11's look perfect. My question is how can you securely attach a carabiner to one to carry on your harness? 

That honestly is the only reason I was thinking of jumping aboard the RT bandwagon, because the cheap Chinese radios I currently have are extremely annoying to use due to my subpar makeshift harness connection (I ended up running a keychain carabiner through the lanyard attachment point).

I came across this guy who 3D printed an attachment point. But for those us without a 3D printer or the knowhow to use one, I'm struggling to come up with a good answer.

That TD-M11 radio has a small plastic lanyard loop. I'd reinforce it by epoxying baling wire along it, having it run down the body of the radio, and then tie some cord to the loop for a biner.

Andrew R wrote:

This is a bot and looks the account is gone.

What an odd thing for a bot to say. I usually don't speculate about bot motives but I wonder if someone has bots trying to promote Starlink? Can't imagine who would do that...

James C wrote:

That TD-M11 radio has a small plastic lanyard loop. I'd reinforce it by epoxying baling wire along it, having it run down the body of the radio, and then tie some cord to the loop for a biner.

I ussually just use the belt clip on my harness waistbelt, and run a 2mm cord through the loop on the radio as a leash.  I use a hand mic clipped to my shirt, or jacket collar.  Once set, you really don't need to fiddle with the actual radio much other than adjusting volume.  

Caleb Hils wrote:

Those look pretty neat! I happen to have a 3d printer and would be more than happy to print you or design and print you some attachement pieces. My only concern with the design shown is the radios only being 1 watt. I wonder the range on them and if they hold up as well as RT’s. Either way send me a pm if you’re interested

Yeah I'm not suggesting getting those Baofeng ones. The 2W Tidradio ones seem superior in all aspects.

And I missed the lanyard attachment the first time. Looks big enough you may be able to run a keychain carabiner through it directly. And if not, for sure you could attach a small keychain ring to it. 

Or as Adam suggests, you can just clip it to your harness but the included belt clip and secure it with some cord.

Mike Larson wrote:

Yeah I'm not suggesting getting those Baofeng ones. The 2W Tidradio ones seem superior in all aspects.

And I missed the lanyard attachment the first time. Looks big enough you may be able to run a keychain carabiner through it directly. And if not, for sure you could attach a small keychain ring to it. 

Or as Adam suggests, you can just clip it to your harness but the included belt clip and secure it with some cord.

For sure, checked them out and may have to pick up a pair. That being said I would really love the carabiner clip of RTs but I may have to try to design something. Not sure exactly how I could attach it to the back though if they’re waterproof I may not back able to screw it on. 

I use a carabiner corded to the lanyard attachment point on my Motorolas and it works just fine. I've used Rocky Talkies and, frankly, their carabiner design is overly rigid and only allows a few orientations. I prefer a flexible and extendible point of connection. 

Also, if you really just love the RT carabiner design, they sell a screw on connection point and carabiner for the Expedition Radio that I suspect could be adapted to other radios. $15.

https://rockytalkie.com/products/expedition-carabiner-loop-attachment

Adam Stone wrote:

I ussually just use the belt clip on my harness waistbelt, and run a 2mm cord through the loop on the radio as a leash.  I use a hand mic clipped to my shirt, or jacket collar.  Once set, you really don't need to fiddle with the actual radio much other than adjusting volume.  

I can confirm these TD-M11s are a fantastic alternative to Rocky Talkies. I rigged up mine so that it would be secured to my harness with a lightweight Key-Bak retractable keychain as a keeper cord, with the radio's belt clip as the primary harness attachment point (per Adam's suggestion). I used 24 gauge baling wire to reinforce the belt clip's attachment to the radio and to provide an attachment point for the Key-Bak's key ring. The whole setup weight 147g and cost less than $50 for two radios, compared to over $200 for a pair of RTs. 

I also far prefer the position and ease of release of the belt clip over the RT's carabiner, which would inevitably dangle on one of my rear gear loops and be a pain to reach and disattach. My system is noticeably cleaner and less prone to faffing. Can't thank Adam enough for the recommendation.

Mike Larson wrote:

I can confirm these TD-M11s are a fantastic alternative to Rocky Talkies. I rigged up mine so that it would be secured to my harness with a lightweight Key-Bak retractable keychain as a keeper cord, with the radio's belt clip as the primary harness attachment point (per Adam's suggestion). I used 24 gauge baling wire to reinforce the belt clip's attachment to the radio and to provide an attachment point for the Key-Bak's key ring. The whole setup weight 147g and cost less than $50 for two radios, compared to over $200 for a pair of RTs. 

I also far prefer the position and ease of release of the belt clip over the RT's carabiner, which would inevitably dangle on one of my rear gear loops and be a pain to reach and disattach. My system is noticeably cleaner and less prone to faffing. Can't thank Adam enough for the recommendation.

Curious why you didn't just thread the keychain ring right through the lanyard hole/ring on the radio? Does it really feel like something you can't trust?