When are you no longer a beginner?

Grasshopper, you always beginner, every day.

Maybe an answer to the inverse question helps answer the original question:

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." Niels Bohr

Bb Cc wrote:

When you realize you are only half as smart as you think you are; welcome to average i.e. intermediate.

(I agree, several fine descriptions above)

I like this one. 

I'd say when you when you got through your first epic because you overestimated your own ability and judgment and live to tell the tale you're no longer a beginner. 

dave custerwrote:

When you've backed off of more climbs than the number of climbs most people have climbed?

^^^^ This 

A buddy of mine has a great metric for judging new partners. When you meet someone who wants to go climbing, the question you ask is not: "How long have you been climbing?"

Rather, the question should be: "How many days have you climbed this summer?"

We've all climbed with people who have been climbing X number of impressive years. But turns out they haven't climbed much in the last few years. 

On the other hand, a high school kid who lived in the valley, or Jtree, for two months can be very experienced. They may or may not have their multipitch and rescue knowledge dialed in, but they will be excellent climbers.

When you can competently lead almost any of the 5.6s at the Gunks.

dave custerwrote:

Maybe an answer to the inverse question helps answer the original question:

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." Niels Bohr

Yea, but what does that kook know about climbing!

:P

As just another beginner here, I’m on day 5 on Space, on El Cap, having hauled hundreds of pounds to our high point, led my first A4+, cleaned overhanging, traversing nailing pitches, slept through an absolutely intense thunderstorm, eaten cold soup from cans and had hot French press coffee. I don’t know how I’m going to get through tomorrow. I will, hopefully, figure it out, because, you know, I’m still learning…

Charles Winsteadwrote:

As just another beginner here, I’m on day 5 on Space, on El Cap, having hauled hundreds of pounds to our high point, led my first A4+, cleaned overhanging, traversing nailing pitches, slept through an absolutely intense thunderstorm, eaten cold soup from cans and had hot French press coffee. I don’t know how I’m going to get through tomorrow. I will, hopefully, figure it out, because, you know, I’m still learning…

When you stop craving the validation of others you're no longer a beginner.

When this question no longer interests you, you will have outgrown your climbing pre pubescence.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

When you stop craving the validation of others you're no longer a beginner.

Well, that’s not exactly the point I was trying to make. Rather, that if you approach climbing (or anything else for that matter) in the right way, you will always be a beginner. You might be an absolute stud at multi-pitch trad climbing, but the first time you step up on a hook, or place a copperhead, or equalize two shitty beaks to make one body weight placement, you will feel, and rightly so, like a beginner. Personally, I think that is a good way to go about it.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

When you onsite 5.11 trad and stop wearing your PAS thongs-style you've graduated from begginerhood. 

For some, this moment will never come. 

I stopped that, but then started doing it again. Turns out it’s pretty nice for bolted anchor multi

John Clarkwrote:

I stopped that, but then started doing it again. Turns out it’s pretty nice for bolted anchor multi

Ah. I see. The via ferrata group has many followers.  ;)

(Yeah. I haven’t been following the thread lately)

Bill Lawrywrote:

Ah. I see. The via ferrata group has many followers.  ;)

(Yeah. I haven’t been following the thread lately)

I have onsighted 5.12 trad though (and not just in the creek), so maybe i have aged back in?

John Clarkwrote:

I have onsighted 5.12 trad though (and not just in the creek), so maybe i have aged back in?

Ha ha. Well said. That resonates. My long-time partner goes thong style.

It’s sort of like calling yourself an intellectual to say that you are an experienced climber. This is not a self-referential label, it is one that can only be applied to you by others or else it is invalid. 

for example, a real intellectual would never call themselves an intellectual.

For sport climbing, it's one word - Autonomy.

You are no longer a beginner when you and an equally skilled partner can safely climb on your own and get back home in one piece with all your climbing equipment. 

Grades don't matter really. You can spend the day climbing 5.7s. If you hop on a 5.9 and know how to bail, you're past the beginner stage. 

"When you're not a Barney anymore, Barney."

P Brownwrote:

for example, a real intellectual would never call themselves an intellectual.

I was dressed down by someone who assured me that they were "highly intelligent"... you don't say?

Before dressing down strangers, I always assure them that I am highly intelligent.  Otherwise they think I’m just some random jerkwad.