Locker vs non locker for anchors

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

serious question: I usually bring 1-3 extra lockers on a multi pitch climb to use for master points, for cloving into an anchor, for my PAS during rappelling, and some other random things. do you use non lockers for these things?

those are all critical links.... it's all the extra extraneous ones like two lockers on each end of quad anchor.  Hell I saw this group at the red on a sport route.  quad anchor with lockers on both sides and x2 lockers for the climber to clip into to them be lowered.  guy had never taken a lead fall outside and was freaking out....couldn't clip into the  lockers, completely out of his depth.  just put a couple draws up on the anchor .... you've got 5 redundant draws below you!

A plain gate carabiner weights 37-42 grams. A wiregate is 30-37 grams.  A locker is 45-46 grams (sm'd, liteforge...).  Unless you are using nano 22s you don't save that much by not using lockers on the anchor, so I don't really see why this is a debate ? Use whatever you are comfortable with. I use lockers with a single 120cm dyneema sling, quads are not a thing here.

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

serious question: I usually bring 1-3 extra lockers on a multi pitch climb to use for master points, for cloving into an anchor, for my PAS during rappelling, and some other random things. do you use non lockers for these things?

Serious answer:

My Locker for my belay device is it. I don't use a guide device (too many extra lockers and dangerous to lower), I use a gri-gri (now Edelrid Pinch) for everything. Rap either simul or biner block. That it can be used as an ascender of sorts too means the overall utility is worth the extra weight.

I always tie into the anchor with 2 cloves. For something as critical as this I believe tying in twice is best, YMMV. A clove once weighted will never come unclipped, btw, you can hardly get them off when you try if they have been weighted heavy. I build the anchor with the rope always and so I may be cloved in 3 times etc. When it's time to go the anchor comes apart way faster.

My PAS for rappelling, the same. Two standard biners, clip in the one on the adjustable device, then another on the tail goes in too, to a separate point.

Lockers weigh more, can jam at inopportune times, won't properly lock at others. Always screwing and unscrewing etc etc. They are slow and can even cause an epic if jammed at the wrong time.

I'm not telling you how to climb, but I would suggest that many could probably climb with less gear.

I only use lockers where a single carabiner is keeping me or someone else from dying, or if I cant see the carabiner and theres a chance of something weird happening.

https://100001.onl/   https://1921681254.mx/

Loic Prstwrote:

A plain gate carabiner weights 37-42 grams. A wiregate is 30-37 grams.  A locker is 45-46 grams (sm'd, liteforge...).  Unless you are using nano 22s you don't save that much by not using lockers on the anchor, so I don't really see why this is a debate ? Use whatever you are comfortable with. I use lockers with a single 120cm dyneema sling, quads are not a thing here.

The debate is the experienced v the non but I bet it has a lot to do with cordellette/master point creators v. build with the rope types. When you build an anchor with the rope and clove the pieces together you don't worry about anything coming unclipped, especially the weighted cloves.

Agree that there is nothing wrong with lockers on the pieces/bolts on a TR when the anchor is unattended. Still, not needed. You only carried a few biners and slings up there plus the rope but never in the history of climbing has a carabiner come unclipped from the anchor while top roping nor have two opposed gate carabiners with the rope running through them come unclipped. Please correct me if I am wrong.

On something you are going to lead you are saving weight, time, bulk on the rack/harness = energy. Most are carrying 2-4 lockers (or more) they do not need and cordelettes and gadgets they do not need because they don't know how to build an anchor with the rope and take too much "just in case stuff". 

Let alone when a locker's gate freezes and you can't get it open or closed and the sun is setting. If this hasn't happened to you then you then you haven't been climbing long enough.

Carry all the crap you want. I got no skin in your game.

But no one with experience approaches the problem this way, imo. They try to figure out how to keep it as simple as possible and take as little = light as possible unless it's a big wall 7 day junk show.

If you have more carabiners you could use two for each anchor point, but you want to oppose the gates.