Photos of BEAUTIFUL HARDWARE pt2

Why not  switch the SS chain to the higher bolt and the put the e-rigging hook on the bottom bolt. You could size it so the hook is still taking most of the wear. Your previous setup looks like it makes it a pain in the ass to set up a top rope with 2 quickdraws and is going to confuse the gumbies. I doubt it's much of a concern for a very long time, but it's good to remember the gate on the Kong stainless biners is still aluminum. 

DrRockso RRGwrote:

Why not  switch the SS chain to the higher bolt and the put the e-rigging hook on the bottom bolt.

https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/126598022

• This anchor is shared between two routes and the one on the right does a kind of high traverse in, but I also wanted the leftmost line to have a lower clip at the finish, all while preserving original bolt locations. But to make the mystery theif happy I'll probably do what you recommend.

Second verse, same as the first.

Good compromise between all the factors.

 Nice setup!

On the Perch? Which line?

Patrick Heddinswrote:

Found on the Beckey Route - Elephant’s Perch

A friend of mine recently saw some of these. Believe they are flat head Rawl drives.

Naw, those are Star Driven classis nail in sleeve. 

People routinely placed those incorrectly and didn't put the sleeve over the hanger, just the nail.

In shear I guess they would hold at least bodyweight. But you commonly could lift the nail out with your hand.

I once did a sustained route with them all placed wrong. I mistakenly kept climbing thinking the next would be better.

The deck fall just got worse and worse and eventually was near 80' on those things lol.

Take a closer look at the image. I don't believe the nail on a start drivin looks quite like that. It does look exactly like the flat head rawl drive.

If that is a bolt Beckey placed, it could be a split shank bolt like Timothy posted above but there is a chance it is a 3/16”.  I replaced some Beckey bolts that looked really similar to the picture Patrick posted.

timothy fisherwrote:

Take a closer look at the image. I don't believe the nail on a start drivin looks quite like that. It does look exactly like the flat head rawl drive.

I can't see any sleeve so I think you're right!

:D

New to developing, and figuring out different anchor set ups.  Overall happy with each, but also each needs a little tweaking or finishing.  

All hardware is 304 or 316 SS, 1/2"x5.5" wedge or sleeve bolts.  

I'm not good at differentiating my basalt-like rock, but it's in that family.  

Originally wanted to get both hangers on the left block, but didn't like where the second one would fall.  Planning to add quicklink+mussy to the upper bolt, and quicklink+captive biners to the lower.  Route comes in from the right, so I think rope twist and wear on the lower hardware shouldn't be an issue.   

Need to at least replace the lower-offs.  They were a gift, and I really don't like the size or stiff action.  The original chain length put the rope over the edge below at an angle I didn't like, so will also need to replace with cut links

Will add quicklink+mussy to each.  

Paul Lwrote:

New to developing, and figuring out different anchor set ups.  Overall happy with each, but also each needs a little tweaking or finishing.  

All hardware is 304 or 316 SS, 1/2"x5.5" wedge or sleeve bolts.  

I'm not good at differentiating my basalt-like rock, but it's in that family.  

Originally wanted to get both hangers on the left block, but didn't like where the second one would fall.  Planning to add quicklink+mussy to the upper bolt, and quicklink+captive biners to the lower.  Route comes in from the right, so I think rope twist and wear on the lower hardware shouldn't be an issue.   

leave the right rap bolt the way it is. IMO Connect the Biner(s) to the chain closer to the left bolt and mussy to the left bolt with a larger QL and you can have the mussy and chain QL on the same link.

Need to at least replace the lower-offs.  They were a gift, and I really don't like the size or stiff action.  The original chain length put the rope over the edge below at an angle I didn't like, so will also need to replace with cut links

That set up is good as is. You can opposite oppose them, and they are already a lower-off. IMO the stiffness of those captive biners is not a big deal, but you follow your heart!

Will add quicklink+mussy to each.  

add 2 links at least, as the orientation of the mussy off those rap hangers with a single link will have the mussy lay flat, which is not ideal, if you must make it an open system lower-off. Also you want the mussys to be able to come together so may need more than 2 links but hard to tell.

Honestly, why the Rap hangers with the ring? Swap em out for a normal hanger and just add mussy with 3 links a side and save those rap hangers for a multi pitch. Also for the first anchor shown, why the rap hanger of youre goig to have a lower-off? I assume this is all single pitch....

The single ring hangers are best used for the bottom bolt on a vertical closed system. As installed that would be a rope Twister.

May be the lighting, but the sleeve bolts in the 2nd pick look plated. Can’t zoom in on the heads to see the markings, but the luster and thin washers make me think plated.

Mr. Rogers: the ring hangers need an odd number of links for hooks to sit properly. Agree that longer would be good, but should be 1,3,5… 

Peter Thomaswrote:

May be the lighting, but the sleeve bolts in the 2nd pick look plated. Can’t zoom in on the heads to see the markings, but the luster and thin washers make me think plated.

Mr. Rogers: the ring hangers need an odd number of links for hooks to sit properly. Agree that longer would be good, but should be 1,3,5… 

You have it backward. Regular hanger you need 1/3/5/etc to get proper orientation as you describe for a mussy, captive biner etc. In regular hangers thin link wants to sit "flat" on the wall.
Those horzontal style hangers you would want even 2/4/... The QL wants to sit 90º compared to a regular hanger, call it spine to the wall, so a mussy or captive biner needs at least 2 links to sit properly.

Unless you are insinuating they attach the QL to the ring, which I would not do. Waste of a good rap ring.

Mr Rogerswrote:

You have it backward. Regular hanger you need 1/3/5/etc to get proper orientation as you describe for a mussy, captive biner etc. In regular hangers thin link wants to sit "flat" on the wall.
Those horzontal style hangers you would want even 2/4/... The QL wants to sit 90º compared to a regular hanger, call it spine to the wall, so a mussy or captive biner needs at least 2 links to sit properly.

Unless you are insinuating they attach the QL to the ring, which I would not do. Waste of a good rap ring.

What’s your plan for getting that rap ring off of that hanger then? It’s incredibly rare for people to have the horizontal hanger without the ring pre-welded on (I’ve personally only seen it one time ever, on an anchor Peter put in funnily enough). So likely either attaching to the ring or replacing with a normal hanger, in which case the 1/3/5 applies

Tal Mwrote:

What’s your plan for getting that rap ring off of that hanger then?

I'm not, leave it, for use as a rap ring if they don't have something to replace it.
In the case of the linked kinda vertical set up, and the horizontal one with the dual rap rings, it still has some value as a closed sytem option if someone wnats to use it.
But again, change em' out for normal hangers is what I'm suggesting, but if they don't have that extra hardware, I would do as I suggested to not take away the functon of the closed system option. Of course you can just link into the rings, but to me feels wasteful to do so from a monetary standpoint and functional.

But hey, in the end, it's just money and some folks might be tight on options. OP def has plenty of options to consider now =)

Mr Rogerswrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. I certainly do have a better idea of options now.  

Originally I picked up the ringed hangers because access for this wall is easiest from above, but due to fire damage there aren't many options for getting over the edge without finding rock to put anchor points into.  It's nice to be able to rap over the edge, then pull the rope down without leaving gear.  We also may install some fixed lines tied directly to the rings to rap over the edge. Picked these hangers up to put in those access points from above, but have more leftover so have been using them in spots for regular anchors.  Also, on a budget so just trying to use what's available before buying more stuff.  I probably won't buy them again, partially because they are 1/2" hangers but not all 1/2" bolts fit through them.. namely the Hilti KB2 is a bit too big for the threads to pass through

For the first anchor shown, my thought was that a single quicklink attached to the ring would then put a steel 'biner in the right orientation to the rock when attached.  I was on the fence about leaving the chain and just attaching two lower-offs below the ring, but I think the chain will come off and I'll go with the mussy above, 'biner below option.  

Mr Rogerswrote:

You have it backward. Regular hanger you need 1/3/5/etc to get proper orientation as you describe for a mussy, captive biner etc. In regular hangers thin link wants to sit "flat" on the wall.
Those horzontal style hangers you would want even 2/4/... The QL wants to sit 90º compared to a regular hanger, call it spine to the wall, so a mussy or captive biner needs at least 2 links to sit properly.

Unless you are insinuating they attach the QL to the ring, which I would not do. Waste of a good rap ring.

We were thinking different approaches. I would use the ring rather than the hanger directly. It’s gives more extension, and leaves the ring more easily accessible with the option for either and open or closed anchor. Adding a link to the hanger would make it pretty clustered and harder to use the ring if you wanted to. Many of the newer single ring anchors (not those pictured above) also don’t have space for a second attachment with a round hole rather than a slot