D4 Ledges Coming Soon…

Coming close and finished the pattern for the Delta 2P bed and 24x36 belay ledge. Practice pink bed went well, missing elements that were unnecessary for the pattern dimensions.

Working on a fly tomorrow and the 1P if I can get my hands on some dry ice for bending tubes. Overall an unusually large process but with the tube bending figured out it seems to be smaller more manageable problems to solve. 

Cool.

Do you have pricing? Maybe a link to a website, if you have one....

Love the design.

Ben Zartmanwrote:

Cool.

Do you have pricing? Maybe a link to a website, if you have one....

Love the design.

Thanks! Not my design, all attributed to the late great Middendorf and his open source D4 design. We are here, the ledges go up when they are done.

 High Mtn Gear

High Mountain Gearwrote:

Thanks! Not my design, all attributed to the late great Middendorf and his open source D4 design. We are here, the ledges go up when they are done.

 High Mtn Gear

http://bigwalls.net/

High Mountain Gearwrote:

Thanks! Not my design, all attributed to the late great Middendorf and his open source D4 design. We are here, the ledges go up when they are done.

 High Mtn Gear

That's awesome.  Thanks!

High Mountain Gearwrote:

........if I can get my hands on some dry ice for bending tubes. Overall an unusually large process but with the tube bending figured out it....... 

dry ice? I'd love to hear more about this wizardry.

jcs

jackscoldsweatwrote:

dry ice? I'd love to hear more about this wizardry.

jcs

Cryogenic forming 

Kristoffer Wickstromwrote:

Cryogenic forming 

Dawn dish soap acts as a mandrel, supporting walls of tubes.

cryogenic forming sounds way cooler.

Added the Little Joe, 2 weeks to ship. 4lb 5oz with a generous tag bag for it, color coordinated. 10% off for a week as I try to do with new products.

10% code is 7A8ACR2K7T7X

D4 Belay Ledge

D2P almost done…

Love those colors and work. Keep it up!

Delta 2P is ready! 14.5 lbs, seam sealed storm fly, EPX 200 Sailcloth bed. 4-6 weeks to ship. We had some issues sending out our previous batch of A5 ledges on time due to shipping times and the tubes, but we got tubes for days now. 10% off as usual for the first week, get em while the gettin' is good. Code Q5VVNX6YG35H

D4 Delta 2P

Are you using Ti tubes like Middendorf was playing with?

Ben Zartmanwrote:

Are you using Ti tubes like Middendorf was playing with?

That had not occurred to us, dude. Mainly because we are patterning, designing and stitching so much stuff.

Ti can be bent, but I don’t have the computer expertise to calculate the benefit. Also, I wouldn’t be able to bend them personally because that would require a specialized machine I do not have or desire to own. I imagine the cost of the ledge would be parts/the machine to do it, or I’d send it out.

A Ti frame is not where the weight is saved at least at first. In Dorf’s A5 days/Catherine Destiville, fabric hadn’t caught up yet. I think you could shave 3 lbs off just by changing fabrics, the harness to UHMWPE, remove quicklinks, swap out most of the shock cord with amsteel, All that is about $1-1500k in upgrades, whereas a Ti frame might yield a couple lb difference and cost more. The joiners would need(might as well) a redesign, prob out of Ti, and they would be crazy expensive at those low quantities.

Maybe $5-6k isn’t so crazy for a sub 8 lb framed ledge/fly since G7 setup is now $3900 without tax, but an A5 version would be a little easier.

Could just change the straight tubes.

I think Aluminum has some properties that make things work easier with the d4/A5 design like taking it apart.

I haven’t done a ton of machining but compared to Ti, in my experience aluminum is basically butter. I have run 1/4 inch end mills into Al when rapid traveling on a CNC and had them been fine but chipped a 1/4 just doing roughing passes on Ti.

never bent Ti but I am sure it would be difficult if doing a delta design.

High Mountain Gearwrote:

That had not occurred to us, dude. Mainly because we are patterning, designing and stitching so much stuff.

Ti can be bent, but I don’t have the computer expertise to calculate the benefit. Also, I wouldn’t be able to bend them personally because that would require a specialized machine I do not have or desire to own. I imagine the cost of the ledge would be parts/the machine to do it, or I’d send it out.

A Ti frame is not where the weight is saved at least at first. In Dorf’s A5 days/Catherine Destiville, fabric hadn’t caught up yet. I think you could shave 3 lbs off just by changing fabrics, the harness to UHMWPE, remove quicklinks, swap out most of the shock cord with amsteel, All that is about $1-1500k in upgrades, whereas a Ti frame might yield a couple lb difference and cost more. The joiners would need(might as well) a redesign, prob out of Ti, and they would be crazy expensive at those low quantities.

Maybe $5-6k isn’t so crazy for a sub 8 lb framed ledge/fly since G7 setup is now $3900 without tax, but an A5 version would be a little easier.

Could just change the straight tubes.

I think Aluminum has some properties that make things work easier with the d4/A5 design like taking it apart.

Yeah, hardest part of product design is figuring out where to use materials and processes that will still make an affordable product at the expected scale.  I'm wavering between Al, Ti and 304 SS for something I'm making, and the variables are a chore to juggle!

I think you're doing awesome work.  Press on!

Its full size day!

I have to say I'm always impressed by how quickly you, Flava Flav, are able to develop new designs or adapt existing ones and get them to market. Seems like you're always popping a product out!

Sean Andersonwrote:

I have to say I'm always impressed by how quickly you, Flava Flav, are able to develop new designs or adapt existing ones and get them to market. Seems like you're always popping a product out!

Another one. D1P, cool bit is your feet are against the wall. We’re close to finishing, but I think 10.5/11lbs with fly/haul bag. I imagine done carefully one could “void the warranty” and put two people on it since the wide point is 36-38” for 8ish lbs. I made the tubing a bit stronger in case someone did that.

Otherwise neat design, side orientation also works but the fly is scuffed for feet-to-wall. The other benefit is haul bag could literally be right next to you at the belay

Its reversed, the ledge seems more stable when its clipped direct to “bolt” instead of extended in the “feet” orientation. You would have to intentionally and forcefully flip the ledge over, no moderate gusts of wind is going to dump you out.

$1200 ish for the set.

D1P in action. In this orientation and the way I used 4 different diameters of tubing it works for 2 people at 7.5 lbs. Not for the standard crowd, more for couples and alpinists. Fly is set for wall side, not feet in because the angle is so steep at the head. 

Yeah, I’m picking mine up tomorrow! Can’t wait to try it out