How to place screws when your tools have a leash

question is the title folks. I own an old pair of Pulsars and always climb on them with leashes. Trying to place screws with tools constantly attached to my wrists is a pain. The tools wind up constantly jangling around and bumping into stuff. There's gotta be a better way. How'd they do it way back when?

Thanks!!

Matthew Hoffwrote:

question is the title folks. I own an old pair of Pulsars and always climb on them with leashes. Trying to place screws with tools constantly attached to my wrists is a pain. The tools wind up constantly jangling around and bumping into stuff. There's gotta be a better way. How'd they do it way back when?

Thanks!!

Back in the "old days," we would get to a good stance and kick in so that our feet were super solid. You'd set your tool high and hang from your leash with a relaxed-ish grip from the strong side. You'd then set the tool on your "screwing hand" side and fiddle your way out of the leash. There were different styles of leashes, so each leash had it's own best way to get out, but often it involved biting some kind of pull tab and fiddling the leash open enough to get your gloved hand out. 

You placed your screw, then you fiddled your way back into the leash. Placed that tool high, removed your other high tool, shook the hand that had been up high for the whole screw placing process until feeling came back and it sorta kinda started to warm up again. Then you started climbing again. 

This was a huge reason why ice climbing has historically been known for such big runouts between screws. 

Leashless tools may have been the biggest technological improvement in any discipline of climbing that has ever happened. They immediately changed every ice climber's ability and safety for the better and likely by a bigger margin than any other piece of climbing technology that has come around. 

Used your mouth on the pull cord for the leash to loosen it and wiggle your hand out. Same to retighten it after placing a screw.  

Thank goodness I started leading after I dumped my leashes from my first tools. 

I vaguely remember reading something written by Mark Twight describing this process.

something to the effect of 'set/anchor your top tool in solid and say goodbye to that hand......' maybe in Extreme Alpinism ?

once the screw is set, re-leash the free hand and take the weight off anchored hand. then spend the next 5 mins. letting the blood flow back into previously anchored hand. trying not to puke.

jcs

jackscoldsweatwrote:
once the screw is set, re-leash the free hand and take the weight off anchored hand. then spend the next 5 mins. letting the blood flow back into previously anchored hand. trying not to puke.

jcs

Gawd, ice climbing pre ~2000 was even dumber than it is now. 

Double Jwrote:

Gawd, ice climbing pre ~2000 was even dumber than it is now. 

Remember when the quick release andriod leash was the latest innovation because you could leave it cinched on your wrist but press a clip to remove it from the tool?

Greg Steelewrote:

Remember when the quick release andriod leash was the latest innovation because you could leave it cinched on your wrist but press a clip to remove it from the tool?

I do. I had that style set up for my Quarks in the early 2ks. Didn’t have to actually remove the leash, just unclip it from just below the head of the tool 

Double Jwrote:

Thank goodness I started leading after I dumped my leashes from my first tools. 

I remember the desperation I felt trying to save up when leashless tools became available. I had been climbing ice for 2 seasons and knew I wasn't going to stay at it if I had to keep using leashes. I was going to quit or fall off and die before I got smart enough. 

Greg Steelewrote:

Remember when the quick release andriod leash was the latest innovation because you could leave it cinched on your wrist but press a clip to remove it from the tool?

I had a pair of those hated them. I used them less than a dozen times and went back to twist leashes. I still use them. It is really easy to stick one's hand through, twist twice, and climb. Same with removing one's hand. Worse case when thing went to shit one could clip the rope to the leash.

BITD one could make a very nice twist leash with 5/8 tubular webbing. 

This is why I preferred twist leashes back in the day.  Easy to get in and out when setting screws.  

And yes, do not fall was the rule of the day.  As were long runouts. First time I led the Designator I only placed 4 screws

Greg Steelewrote:

Remember when the quick release andriod leash was the latest innovation because you could leave it cinched on your wrist but press a clip to remove it from the tool?

I had Android leashes fitted to Charlet Axars. They were ok, but sort of flopped around and got in the way when placing a screw. Jeez, gear has come a long way!  The first pitch with leashless tools was life changing. 

I have a freind who's Dad put up a lot of the FA's around BC and has regailed us with stories of climbing ice in the leashed tool days.

He mentioned his ice tools had a notch on the top and before he placed a screw he would run the rope over the notch so that he was "protected" while he put in screws.

Climbing WI6 with the tech he had is mind blowing to a humble modern WI4 guy like me.

Haha, memory lane.   More like Nightmare lane.  Though I did like the clipper leashes on Cobras.  Early on, I got the screaming Barfies before a lead, just contemplating hanging out to bang in a snarg with straight shaft axes and early screw technology 

Once the original Cobras w clipper leashes, and express screws came out, and big ol’ plastic boots disappeared, life got easy.  Thought, “how can it get any better than this?”

Then as screws continued to improve and leashless came out, the weather got warm, and boots became feathers, all challenge was engineered out of ice climbing.   No need to try hard anymore.  Just the way I like it ;)

Allen Sandersonwrote:

I had a pair of those hated them. I used them less than a dozen times and went back to twist leashes. I still use them. It is really easy to stick one's hand through, twist twice, and climb. Same with removing one's hand. Worse case when thing went to shit one could clip the rope to the leash.

BITD one could make a very nice twist leash with 5/8 tubular webbing. 

For the OP, this is the answer. They are REALLY  EASY to get in and out of. All the rest of the stories are from people who never figured this out. I  KNOW, because I did all those other things too. And those other things aren't neccessarilly as bad as some are making it out to be. 

Chouinard Hexentrics are the most important technological advance since I started climbing. The adoption of hexentrics in Yosemite coincides with the most significant period of rapid advancement in free climbing. In 1971 there were about 4 or 5 pitches of 5.11, 3 of which were downgraded to 5.10 by 1976. Which I think is the same year Tony Yaniro did Grand Illusion,  or pretty close. And what? 1978 for Phoenix? Yeah Jardine had Friends, but no one else did, and others were knocking at 5.13's door with hexes.

Maybe leashless tools are the biggest innovation for modern ice climbing, but what about recurve picks? or curved shafts? 

A twist up type homemade leash might serve you well. 

Eric Craigwrote:

For the OP, this is the answer. They are REALLY  EASY to get in and out of. All the rest of the stories are from people who never figured this out. I  KNOW, because I did all those other things too. And those other things aren't neccessarilly as bad as some are making it out to be. 

Maybe leashless tools are the biggest innovation for modern ice climbing, but what about recurve picks? or curved shafts? 

A twist up type homemade leash might serve you well. 

So i was messing around with my setup last night and tried the twist on leashes thing. I have a little set of stairs in my garage that I drilled holes in so that I can practice getting what feels like good placements in ice and then try hanging on one hand and two feet and messing around enough with the other hand to simulate putting in a screw. The twist on leashes are dope as hell! I just need to make sure my tool is really in there so that I can fiddle in and out of the leashes and not drop the tools in the process. 

For those wondering, yes, I have tried leashless tools. Yes, they're awesome. unfortunately I am currently broke as hell and my money is probably better spent on a couple more screws (and maybe a couple ice trips?) if I'm intending to start leading at some point. Plus, why would I wanna stop using a badass pair of pulsars? These things are sick!!!

Thanks for the input guys!

-Matt

Eric Craigwrote:

For the OP, this is the answer. They are REALLY  EASY to get in and out of. All the rest of the stories are from people who never figured this out. I  KNOW, because I did all those other things too. And those other things aren't neccessarilly as bad as some are making it out to be. 

Chouinard Hexentrics are the most important technological advance since I started climbing. The adoption of hexentrics in Yosemite coincides with the most significant period of rapid advancement in free climbing. In 1971 there were about 4 or 5 pitches of 5.11, 3 of which were downgraded to 5.10 by 1976. Which I think is the same year Tony Yaniro did Grand Illusion,  or pretty close. And what? 1978 for Phoenix? Yeah Jardine had Friends, but no one else did, and others were knocking at 5.13's door with hexes.

Maybe leashless tools are the biggest innovation for modern ice climbing, but what about recurve picks? or curved shafts? 

A twist up type homemade leash might serve you well. 

Hexes made protecting the climbing people were already capable of do doing possible. Leashless tools literally enabled people to climb better the minute they put their hands on them.

Pick changes and shaft changes were very significant, but didn’t impact ice climbing as significantly as leashless. Prior to leashless tools, WI5 grades were climbed by only very skilled, and bold ice climbers. WI6 was for only the very elite.

Leashless climbing has changed that so much that within only a couple seasons after the majority of climbers made the switch, WI5 became rather common and even many weekend warrior ice climbers began considering and climbing WI6 routes. WI5 routes became “picked out” in many areas. Beginner ice climbers now routinely climb WI4 on their first outing. Many new ice climbers become solid WI4 leaders within a season of leading ice on weekends at best.   

NateCwrote:

Hexes made protecting the climbing people were already capable of do doing possible. Leashless tools literally enabled people to climb better the minute they put their hands on them.

Pick changes and shaft changes were very significant, but didn’t impact ice climbing as significantly as leashless. Prior to leashless tools, WI5 grades were climbed by only very skilled, and bold ice climbers. WI6 was for only the very elite.

Leashless climbing has changed that so much that within only a couple seasons after the majority of climbers made the switch, WI5 became rather common and even many weekend warrior ice climbers began considering and climbing WI6 routes. WI5 routes became “picked out” in many areas. Beginner ice climbers now routinely climb WI4 on their first outing. Many new ice climbers become solid WI4 leaders within a season of leading ice on weekends at best.   

I guess you didn't read my post before commenting???? Or do you think I am full of shit???? Gotta be one or the other. 

I certainly never thought of myself as an elite ice climber. Nice to find out 30 years later that I was. 

Maybe I was a little bold on my first ice climb. I lead a Grade 4 pitch with a 70cm Chouinard piolet and an alpine hammer. With Charlie Porter and Ron Kauk watching. It was really fun, and challenging,  but I didn't think it sketchy. 

Hey if Mark Hudon reads this,  what do you say about my Hexentrics comment? You,  like me, were there. You,  unlike me, were doing it.

I personally think the screws were the biggest difference. The leashless tools are Amazing but the screws are the real cheaters.  the gear really really , really sucked back in the day and tools just kind of sucked.  Not the gear is Amazing and the tools are pretty damn good as well.  

Do yourself a favor and ditch the leashes as soon as you can. 

Eric Craigwrote:

I guess you didn't read my post before commenting???? Or do you think I am full of shit???? Gotta be one or the other. 

I certainly never thought of myself as an elite ice climber. Nice to find out 30 years later that I was. 

Maybe I was a little bold on my first ice climb. I lead a Grade 4 pitch with a 70cm Chouinard piolet and an alpine hammer. With Charlie Porter and Ron Kauk watching. It was really fun, and challenging,  but I didn't think it sketchy. 

Hey if Mark Hudon reads this,  what do you say about my Hexentrics comment? You,  like me, were there. You,  unlike me, were doing it.

Awfully fuckin' hostile today, eh, Eric? I read every damn word of your post, and engaged you in some polite discussion instead of dismissing your ramblings like most others do around here. What more do you want?  

Nick Said:

I personally think the screws were the biggest difference. The leashless tools are Amazing but the screws are the real cheaters.  the gear really really , really sucked back in the day and tools just kind of sucked.  Not the gear is Amazing and the tools are pretty damn good as well.  

Do yourself a favor and ditch the leashes as soon as you can. 

I considered that the argument could be made about the screws. My thought in favor of the tools is that screws keep us from running it out now, but falling is still a huge risk of severe injury even if the falls are shorter now. 

I can see your point though, and did consider that it may counter my feelings about the tools.

The  new tools are great but the old tools climbed pretty darn well. The fact that every lead was a solo was the limiting factor.  There is a much greater/ massive  divide between snargs and Chouinard twist in screws that required useing your ice tool  as a lever to screw them in and  a Chounard  x tool or Simond Chakal or humming bird.  We could reasonably climb 5 and 5+  but simply could not get a screw in on that terrain without clipping into a tool. Even then it took both hands and a shit tonn of energy to get a single screw in. Hands down it's the screws. I still take my old ax out once a year for a solo and climb with one Chouinard

I agree with the screws being the biggest game changer. Started climbing on black prophets with lockdown leashes - still available: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/lockdown-leash/?sku=BD4111450000ALL1&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD4soIvTNyEHV3mOVqzCANBL2s10o&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl4KTnMv4igMVsC1ECB2buj1MEAQYASABEgL_QfD_BwE

Very easy to loop over the hammer and twist to free your hand. Then I moved to the Charlet Moser Freelock leash: https://saferescue.com/products/freelock-ice-axe-leash?variant=39708508618949&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2022-02-03&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADCSgP35G8migcTCfjg4HqnaWG6el&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpqGiycv4igMVox1ECB1rdiHMEAQYDSABEgLvSfD_BwE

The loop twisted against the shaft and was even easier to use.