Mammut “core protect” double ropes

Tjaard Breeuwerwrote:

like @Israel Mentioned,
I am sure if you damage the regular sheath, you replace it. As they show in the video, the inner hybrid aramid/pa sheath is very loose. And if the regular, outer sheath, was cut, you run into issue with that slipping, certainly with teethed ascenders/tibloc, but probably even with Prussiks and certain belay devices. 

Interesting info, although I must ask, is this speculation?

Sure the loose weave might slip, but were not talking 2-5 ft or something like that I would posture.

Why do you believe toothed ascenders would certainly have an effect?

Prussiks (nylon sheath and aramid [dia. difference matters more*]) still work on all the other aramid ropes out there, and aramids are used to prussik to nylon(they actually have good friction in this respect).... same question, why do you come to that conclusion?

and certain belay devices.

What belay devices? static aramid sheathed ropes exist and can be used in all styled devices as long is diameter is in range.
I could maybe the structure of the rope not holding a round enough shape causes an issue, or maybe that the diameter will be much less to cause an issue?

I appreciate what you have brought to the conversation.

@mr rogers, yes, pure speculation.
My listing  was just based on how much a device grabs the sheath, not on the material.

 If it grabs the outer sheath when it was severed, that would slip, in the manner that unicore is supposed to prevent.

Or if it grabbed the inner sheath, which, as we saw in the video, is very loose, so any device grabbing it would cause that to slip.

Of course, that doesn’t mean you slide to the end of the rope and die, or that a belay device, especially a camming one, can’t provide any holding power any more.
But I understood the question to be: could a Mammut protect rope still be used (for the rest of the route) if the outer, regular sheath was cut. And I think that from what I have seen in the video, there doesn’t seem to be enough ‘hold‘ in that inner sheath to provide (nearly) full function of the rope, not to mention that there is now only very little sheath left to protect the core from further damage. 

Hopefully none of us have to find out! 

Tjaard Breeuwerwrote:

Mammut’s double, the 8.0 mm, at 43g/m, is a hair thinner and lighter than Edelrid’s Starling at 8.2 and 44 g/m.

It will be interesting to see if Mammut comes out with a triple rated version as well. 

In the same line of thought it appears mammut's 8.0 is double rated but not twin.

I would love to see  hownot2 compare the cut resistance of the elderid and the mammut ropes.

climber patwrote:

In the same line of thought it appears mammut's 8.0 is double rated but not twin.

It says certified both half and twin on the FEATURES section of https://www.mammut.com/us/en/products/2010-04590-11288/8-0-alpine-core-protect-dry-rope.

I wish they would post an image of the hang tag on the web page.

Guess it’s up to Beal to make a rope with aramid in the cover and an inner core.

Excited to see how these perform in the wild. I have been disappointed with the wear characteristics of my Edelrid swift protect. 

I finally had a chance to watch the whole Hard Is Easy video.  Super interesting way to solve the problem of the static aramid yarns.  I'll be curious to see how it works out with sheath slippage with there being two sheaths.

I wonder if the aramid yarns are the same diameter between the two designs.  I'd be really curious to see both the Mammut and Edelrid test results with the opposite brand's ropes.  You know they both have done it!

To address some of the odd comments about the inner sheath being loose....it's clearly a sample and the braid has been loosened from pulling it back for demonstration.  If the tolerances were that far off in manufacturing, they'd have to start gluing it to the core to stop it from slipping like Beal did. :D

I also have never had an issue with my Swift Protect twisting unless I made bad choices at a rap anchor.

Either way, I'll definitely be giving one a try when I get the chance.

I can report that the Mammut 9.5 core protect handles real nice. Obviously haven’t tested its edge-cutting resistance, but so far I like the rope. 

As much as I appreciate that there’s innovation in ropes, I think that for most of us, this technology is absolutely useless.
The added cut resistance only really matters in the testing scenario, so something that looks like the caminati accident. We don’t know about all the other potential (freakish) events and of ropes snagging (cut by worn carabiners; sharp limestone; rockfall…).
The tradeoff is a significantly reduced durability because of less sheath percentage and probably also because of the wear of the aramid against the sheath (?). Isn’t it a problem with those Edelrid protect ropes, that they get fuzzy quickly because of the aramid rubbing against the other materials? Those are just thoughts btw, I have no idea to be honest.
For me at least, it seems like something I just don’t need. But maybe this is a stepping stone to the unsnaggable rope we’ll see in a few years. 

Reviving this thread as I'm curious how people feel about these ropes now assuming a few months of use?

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

The only thing that stands out to me is the incredible amount of pig-tailing when used with a gri gri type device. Anyone else experience this?

I haven’t experienced this myself. Have used the rope for several dozen pitches of Yosemite and Tahoe granite, with a Grigri, and am very happy with it. Handles great and hasn’t fuzzed up at all (I've heard that the Edelrid ropes do this).

Just got my core protect 9.5 and looking forward to using it this season!  Thinking of trying my first big wall next year with my climbing partner. Would anyone care to comment with big wall experience if you would use the 9.5 core protect on a big wall or not and why?