Another Inreach Vs PLB question (Rescue SOS button comparison)

Hello everyone,

I've been pondering a concern and would appreciate your insights, especially considering my location in Canada.

I've come across numerous accounts of individuals activating their inreach SOS only to find that the rescue relay message indicates they've triggered it too late in the night. Consequently, they end up having to wait until the next day for a rescue helicopter, as operating in the dark is challenging. This leaves them in a situation where they must camp out till first light, regardless of the circumstances.

I currently use the ACR ResQLink View, and my main queries are as follows:

PLBS uses MEOSAR: Does the use of MEOSAR in PLBs mitigate the nighttime rescue issue associated with devices like inreach? Given that MEOSAR is operated by the military and government, are they equipped to carry out rescues in the dark? I'm curious about this because, unlike inreach, PLBs lack two-way messaging. If I find myself in a situation where I need to wait for rescue for an extended period, not knowing when it will arrive could be problematic. In an inreach scenario, the rescue unit could relay pertinent information for better planning.

Government Helicopter Operations at Night: If government-operated helicopters don't conduct rescues at night, how do you determine whether to stay put and prepare for an overnight stay or initiate a self-rescue? Assuming a nighttime self-rescue is necessary, can one move around with the PLB?

Example, it is 10pm and I severed my leg climbing in Squamish. Squamish has signal on a majority of the climbs there, and if I call 911 and request for SAR, they will say it's too late and that I must wait it out till first light due to helicopter visibility issue. If I activate a PLB, will the government have more equipment to carry out the duty? 

My guess is no, although I don't know the ins and outs of Canada search and rescue.  

There is a very limited amount of SAR capability and I suspect you get the same people on the ground either way.  SAR management try to weigh the needs of the victim against the safety of the rescuers hence the likelihood of having to spend the night if you call for rescue late in the day or after dark.  I actually suspect you chances of an nighttime rescue go up if you have two way communication and have injuries justifying a nighttime rescue.

Two-way communication will get you a rescue much faster than a PLB— most jurisdictions* will respond to a PLB by sending in a team on foot to determine if further resources are necessary. Too many people using PLBs for minor emergencies to send a helicopter for everything. 

*unless it’s paid for out of a military training budget or a very overfunded local SAR

Don't go into the mountains if you can't get yourself out of the mountains.  

Don’t know Canada SAR options.

Suspect it it is not the means of calling for rescue that causes someone to have to wait for daylight for a helicopter. But I have seen daytime calls poorly made result in wasted time by SAR on the ground such that it is dark before SAR realizes they need helicopter rescue - which then has to wait until daylight.

If you want to minimize delays overnight, call SAR during daylight as soon as you know you need them. And get a communication system that virtually guarantees two way comms.

But calling early and clearly will often be in conflict with a decision to try to self-rescue. It’s poor form call SAR but not do everything requested to work towards the success of their efforts.

And just plan to not be climbing at 10 pm and severing your leg. Or work your way up to competently climbing in the dark. I’m not joking for the most part.

Interesting... from all the research through the interweb I've heard complete different opinions. From my understanding since PLB's do not have 2 way comms, the government will assume the worst case scenario and almost always send out a heli - to avoid the issue of ground units getting there and having wasted time as you mentioned. On the contrary, inreach allows for communication and perhaps the local ground SAR would be enough. 

I guess who honestly knows with something like this...

The wasted time I described may be from my living in a relatively poor state in the US. And could be related just to the mountains here usually having cell service.

The protocol with cell service in NM is to call 911. The operator would / could report in a way that, say, the fire department starts hiking towards a latitude and longitude. More than once, after hours of daylight have gone by, they realize the rescue is more technical than they can handle and they may even need help themselves with getting out.

This was about 10 years ago.  Maybe NM has it better now.

A PLB sounds a bit too limited compared to something that uses two-way Sat comms in other ways. And Two-way Sat comms has been a game changer for me such that the device is no longer just a big read button to push to request rescue. I can let my spouse know that I’ll be back late.  I can ask friends to hike in a fresh rope if that is all I need to self-rescue.

Bill Lawrywrote:

The wasted time I described may be from my living in a relatively poor state in the US. And could be related just to the mountains here usually having cell service.

The protocol with cell service in NM is to call 911. The operator would / could report in a way that, say, the fire department starts hiking towards a latitude and longitude. More than once, after hours of daylight have gone by, they realize the rescue is more technical than they can handle and they may even need help themselves with getting out.

This was about 10 years ago.  Maybe NM has it better now.

A PLB sounds a bit too limited compared to something that uses two-way Sat comms in other ways. Two-way Sat comms has been a game changer for me such that the device is no longer just a big read button to push to request rescue. I can let my spouse know that I’ll be back late.  I can ask friends to hike in a fresh rope if that is all I need to self-rescue.

 I lost count of how many times the sheriff and state police used up all the daylight hours before calling our SAR team in the 1980s, also in NM.  It does not sound like much changed between then and 2010.  :( 

Uknown Unknownwrote:

Interesting... from all the research through the interweb I've heard complete different opinions. From my understanding since PLB's do not have 2 way comms, the government will assume the worst case scenario and almost always send out a heli - to avoid the issue of ground units getting there and having wasted time as you mentioned. On the contrary, inreach allows for communication and perhaps the local ground SAR would be enough. 

I guess who honestly knows with something like this...

In the US SAR is controlled by the local government, often sheriff or state police; sometime federal agencies like the national park service in very busy climbing areas.  They determine need and coordinate local SAR groups to accomplish the task.  There was a federal law passed in the 1980s that required states to have a master SAR plan with clear lines of authority to receive federal funding. This is why NM has the state police managing SAR.  Very few places have dedicated paid SAR teams.  

Good explanations, Pat. Thanks for adding information.

OP: apologies for derailing with a US-centric discussion.  It would be interesting to know if BC (?) has a SAR option that insures a night-time rescue by helicopter.

Uknown Unknownwrote:

Interesting... from all the research through the interweb I've heard complete different opinions. From my understanding since PLB's do not have 2 way comms, the government will assume the worst case scenario and almost always send out a heli - to avoid the issue of ground units getting there and having wasted time as you mentioned. On the contrary, inreach allows for communication and perhaps the local ground SAR would be enough. 

I guess who honestly knows with something like this...

Can you provide some examples of incidents where a PLB push resulted in a helicopter deployment with no further comms? Maybe in Chamonix where people get hurt skiing all the time and they can just fly out to a ski slope to pick someone up, but I just don't see that happening in a climbing environment. Picking a climber off a vertical cliff face via heli sounds pretty hard. Maybe one of the SAR folks who frequent MP can chime in, but I was under the impression they almost always hauled/lowered the climber to ground and did a heli evac there.

I doubt the military helis will come get you at night, same as the civilian helis.

What if only members of SAR teams could have access to PLBs?

Curious how your broken self is gonna be toilsomely carried out of the hills?  Join up!  

Chris Gardnerwrote:

Can you provide some examples of incidents where a PLB push resulted in a helicopter deployment with no further comms? Maybe in Chamonix where people get hurt skiing all the time and they can just fly out to a ski slope to pick someone up, but I just don't see that happening in a climbing environment. Picking a climber off a vertical cliff face via heli sounds pretty hard. Maybe one of the SAR folks who frequent MP can chime in, but I was under the impression they almost always hauled/lowered the climber to ground and did a heli evac there.

I doubt the military helis will come get you at night, same as the civilian helis.

Climbing accidents are a very small percentage of SOS calls on these devices. Broken legs, hypothernia, heart attacks, lost,  etc., from hikers and boaters probably comprise far more SOS calls than climbing accidents. I think Garmin has some stats on their website,

At least in California, it is pretty much the exact opposite argument. All SAR calls (whether or not via PLB or InReach) get routed through the county sheriffs office. The sheriff's office will then decide if it is worthwhile to ask for helicopter resources, either California Highway Patrol or military. Without additional info or context, it is hard to get either resource with just a PLB activation whether day or night. 

Most of the helicopters I've worked with have some night-flying capabilities, including landing to drop people off and pick people up (usually not hoisting people though). It is more risky however, so there has to be some argument to justify the risk. If there is two-way communication and it is clear there is a life-threatening emergency it is both easier to get helicopter resources and more likely they will be convinced to do a night operation. Same thing goes for ground-team SAR operations; if we know there is a true life threatening emergency and the nature of the emergency it is easier to both mobilize volunteers with the right equipment/skills and justify a night operation.  

I highly recommend getting a two-way emergency communication device! 

Stileswrote:

Don't go into the mountains if you can't get yourself out of the mountains.  

Very valuable input. I’ll try to remember this if I ever have my head caved in by rockfall or break both my ankles in a lead fall. Better just to walk my way out.

In the meantime I’ll keep carrying my inReach justtttt out of abundance of caution.

I will always post this perspective.  The OP even stated, "should we hunker down for the night or initiate self-rescue?".  

If you can: do.  The prevailing attitude is to request help when help is not needed.  Folks go into the hills unprepared to get themselves out; we are most all of us not in France.  Folks die in the mtns, and these devices help prevent that.  But theyre not a replacement for solid decision making, training, and a willingness to think long and hard before calling in assistance.  I just present the devils advocate case when the subject comes up.  Don't go into the hills without the ability to get yourself out.

And! Join your local SAR team.  :D

Stileswrote:

Don't go into the mountains if you can't get yourself out of the mountains.  

I love comments like this! "I would never need a PLB or satellite messenger."  Ha ha.

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Ben Horowitzwrote:I highly recommend getting a two-way emergency communication device! 

PLB is to satellite messaging device as hemp rope is to kern mantle. 

Bob Harringtonwrote:

PLB is to satellite messaging device as hemp rope is to kern mantle. 

Agreed - I wouldn't want a device without two-way messaging capabilities.