Notorious 5.9+ sandbags

There are several # 1 rules. 

Don't  fall  unless the gear is bomber and the fall is clean. 

 Make bomber anchors.

Be methodical while rappelling. 

Don't fck up and die. 

Funny that none of these are at the Gunks, land of the '+' sandbag - I guess the 5.9+ sandbags all got upgrades while the 5.7+/5.8+ routes remain as 'testpieces'. 

I contend that every 'classic for the grade' has to be at least little sandbagged. Half of what makes a classic is the excitement of a section that's harder than anticipated and the relief of getting through it.

None of the Adirondack routes seemed hard for the grade. The ratings at the 'Dacks have been called sandbagged, never felt that way. Of course, back in the day when I did them they were all graded 5.7. 

Nick Budkawrote:

Frosted mug at the beer walls in the adirondacks. I managed to pull myself up it a few times as a beginner climber, but even after sending 5.13, I still think I would struggle a bit. My girlfriend hated that one. Come to think, that one might not even get a + in the book. Or on mp. But that shit is tough. Harder than partition 5.9+ at upper washbowl. I have heard of some adirondack 9+ line being retrograded to 5.11c. We have a particular style in this area. And I have struggled less on 5.11s in the park. 

Partition is a 5.9 MINUS that I believe was upgraded by Lawyer/Haas from Mellor's assigned grade of 5.8. Also isn't Frosted Mug just a plain 5.9, no plus? I thought the grade was fair enough.

Nick Budkawrote:

Frosted mug at the beer walls in the adirondacks. I managed to pull myself up it a few times as a beginner climber, but even after sending 5.13, I still think I would struggle a bit. My girlfriend hated that one. Come to think, that one might not even get a + in the book. Or on mp. But that shit is tough. Harder than partition 5.9+ at upper washbowl. I have heard of some adirondack 9+ line being retrograded to 5.11c. We have a particular style in this area. And I have struggled less on 5.11s in the park. 

I thought frosted mug was only slightly sandbagged. There are a lot of places to stem and rest and get gear in. I thought it was easier than Ectoplasmic Remains.

My post above was in response to a different thread.... oops.. frosted  mug was casual for the Daks.  Try plug and chug for a sandbagged 5.8... try the real p1 of overture  for 9+ sandbag. 

Plug N' Chug is total sandbagged @ 5.8..... It's solid wi5

I think you mean Clutch and Cruise 5.8+

Plug and Chug is a sandbagged WI 4 though! 

Do people really think frosted mug is harder than the great dihedral?? If so we should swap beta :) 

Penetration at Vedauwoo.  Had a conversation with Pamela Pack about that route. She felt it was one of the tougher 5 9+s and she is definitely a better judge of offwidth than I am by light years.

Penetration is 9+ if you can reach the hand jams in the back. My wife who has short arms and cannot reach the jamz finds Penetration quite hard. To be honest, Putter is easier than penetration.

I've been searching the cobwebs of my brain for Gunks 5.9 climbs that deserve to be called sandbags and I haven't come up with that much. Many of the historical candidates have been upgraded to 5.10a, like Amber Waves of Pain and Beatle Brow Bulge.

In the Trapps I think that Precarious Perch is a climb that when I did it, I thought "good god how is this not a 5.10?" The App guys have upgraded it to 5.10a but in Dick's book it remains a 5.9. Perhaps Jean falls into the same category but I think it is a little easier. The third pitch of Grim-Ace Face is another possibility. Maybe Le Teton? Maybe Art's Route? 

In the Near Trapps I think the likeliest candidates are Cherokee and Up in Arms.

Several of these don't even merit a "plus" from Dick, but have been given a plus in the App.

SethGwrote:

Partition is a 5.9 MINUS that I believe was upgraded by Lawyer/Haas from Mellor's assigned grade of 5.8. Also isn't Frosted Mug just a plain 5.9, no plus? I thought the grade was fair enough.

As I said before, frosted mug is a 5.9, I did not suggest an upgrade to 9+, 5.9 is fair, it is not that hard, I just found it particularly strenuous and have struggled less on routes of a much higher grade and I have yet to find a 5.9 or 9+ to put up as much a fight as frosted mug gave me, and I have had easier times on 5.11s. I never really looked at a guidebook for partition, just ran up it with a friend one day, so 5.9-/+ whatever, it was pretty chill. Funny you mention beatle brow bulge as a sandbagged at 5.9+ (Somehow upgraded to 10a), I thought even at 5.9 it wasn’t too bad, modern times gave me more trouble.

Anything established on the North Shore of MN before 1980.  

SethGwrote:

I've been searching the cobwebs of my brain for Gunks 5.9 climbs that deserve to be called sandbags and I haven't come up with that much. Many of the historical candidates have been upgraded to 5.10a, like Amber Waves of Pain and Beatle Brow Bulge.

In the Trapps I think that Precarious Perch is a climb that when I did it, I thought "good god how is this not a 5.10?" The App guys have upgraded it to 5.10a but in Dick's book it remains a 5.9. Perhaps Jean falls into the same category but I think it is a little easier. The third pitch of Grim-Ace Face is another possibility. Maybe Le Teton? Maybe Art's Route? 

In the Near Trapps I think the likeliest candidates are Cherokee and Up in Arms.

Several of these don't even merit a "plus" from Dick, but have been given a plus in the App.

The closest I can think of in the Trapps is the 9+ direct start to Blistered Toe, which I think would easily get a 10a or b if the hard bit wasn't right off the ground.

10a is or at should be a downgrade from 9+.   9+ should be in the 10b to 11b range . when guide authors upgrade a 9+ to 10a they are really wimping out and corrupting the grade as well as not being consistent with what 10a usually is which is soft and techy. 

While only one move. The crux of Double Clutch at the Gunks is a sandbag.

5.11 crack in Vedauwoo and Rock candy in J tree are two I think could easily pass as 5.10s. I haven’t climbed many other 9s that were that thin for the grade. Definitely West Buttress in Eldo too if it is still considered 9+. 

Croc's Nose in Hyalite is listed in the guide book as a 5.9+ TR project. Now a 12a, moderately sandbagged I'd say. 

Ethan Jeannettewrote:

Croc's Nose in Hyalite is listed in the guide book as a 5.9+ TR project. Now a 12a, moderately sandbagged I'd say. 

Add that to one of many Montana 5.9s :-)

Ethan Jeannettewrote:

Croc's Nose in Hyalite is listed in the guide book as a 5.9+ TR project. Now a 12a, moderately sandbagged I'd say. 

.9+ "TR project". I support that guidebook authors sense of humor.