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What’s the verdict on z4s?
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I’m curious as to what folks think of the BD z4s. I picked up a couple that I use occasionally when carrying doubles. My .4 is essentially brand new and I used it as part of a top-rope anchor this weekend. The cam was weighted 3 times and I think one of the cam springs busted. The lobes on the right side arn’t binding on each other, they just seem to have no strength to spring back upwards. anyone else running into issues with z4 durability?
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I've been using mine about a year--I love the sizes above .2, and purchased a replacement .4 after dropping one off a route. I have taken+fallen on them to no ill effects. Sorry about your experience! |
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I'm guessing the lobe got compressed and is now catching on the axle. The spring still works, but the lobe can't rotate freely anymore. The failure mode is described here: I've broken 2 0.4s like this and my friend broke a 0.5. I previously broke a 0.4 X4. I don't know exactly what causes this, but they all failed in normal, relatively small falls.     |
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My thoughts on cams… 15 year old mastercams are still buttery. The repairs through metolius are insane. 10 bucks and they send them back like new, bead polished, ultrasonic cleaning, new slings, wires if necessary. 2 weeks turn around. Made in USA. Less range “allows” you to just carry an extra piece, which I actually like to have. Just food for thought on new purchases. I have had similar experiences with x4 and z4 cams. If they do last they get really crunchy and squeaky. Cant beat the Camalots above .75 size tho for durability, utility, repair and design. |
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I adore mine - I used to qualify and say I loved 0.3 and above but I've actually grown super fond of the 0.1 and 0.2 lately. Mine have all held fairly sizeable whips including a 20 footer onto my 0.2 and all still are holding up great. I do totally understand Cole's perspective as well though - the metolius customer service is delightful. Personally I totally understand someone wanting some other cam set below 0.5, but genuinely believe the Z4s in 0.5 and 0.75 are the best. I rack them before my totems in pretty much all free climbing instances. |
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Love mine. I've put them through the ringer, no issues. When Metolius finally puts thumb loops back, I'll gladly give them my money as I think they're a more respectable company. But until then, BDE. |
Tal Mwrote: Wat. Plz defend your outrageous opinion. Totems are more expensive=more better???? |
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Does anyone have experience with the DMMs? I am torn between the DMMs and the Z4s |
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*Totem enters the chat* |
Sam Klingerwrote: Significantly wider than the z4s Honestly it's a toss up between wild country and z4s, both are great. Z4s are a little stiffer friends so easier for free climbing, friends are a little more flexible and have a higher camming angle so should hold better in marginal placements. But then for really getting the absolute smallest cam, bd wins out by half a mm or so. |
that guy named sebwrote: My understanding is that Aliens are narrower. Flexibility rules as small cams walking is the #1 reason for failure imo, so these X4’s have never even been a consideration. The WC and Aliens are superior - but like all small cams from all makers - they get trashed, especially when you start actually falling on them - too bad - fix it or buy another one. |
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Damn that sucks man. I really like mine. I've taken a couple short falls on them- the .3 and .4 and haven't had the same issues. They were pretty typical textbook placements in more or less parallel vertical cracks. Your experience is disconcerting, but mine have been great. Durability doesn't factor in for me yet, but if I have issues and I remember I'll definitely come back to this thread and post. Thanks for sharing your experience. |
Steven Rwrote: I've got a yellow that got its lobes bent in a relatively mild fall last year that is out of service. I've had to repair two others when they seized up after small falls. They're great, but there's just lots more going on in one of these little buggers than in my C4s. Of course, I've also got a #4 C4 that won't retract all the way because the lobes bent by about 15 degrees in a weird swinging fall. Whatever the brand, falling puts a lot of force through a tiny machine. Miraculous that they work so well in the first place and not exactly surprisingly you can break 'em! |
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When this happened to my x4 it was bc the lobe had moved laterally on the axle. It was closer to the stem and getting stuck due to the extra friction on its side. I was able to move the lobe back into place and the cam is working normally again. |
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This is the third .75 z4 to do this to me. 2021 sling date. The sad thing is I sent two other .75s into BD for repair (one I got them to warranty and the other one I had to pay out of pocket) and this happened while they were away.  IMO if the z4 had 7075 lobes, kevlar trigger wires, and a single stem, they'd be awesome. (They'd also basically be a X4). Why do we always have to ruin a good thing? |
Sam Klingerwrote: I have full set of Dragonflies and have used them extensively. Blue and up on WC Zeros. My x4 and tcu are on reserve. I have the utmost confidence in the DMM and WC small cams. Same as i have for somewhat out of date Metolius. |
Austin Donisanwrote: Thanks for this info! I think you’re right— this appears to be the issue with my .4 |
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They’re okay, not favored status. They just don’t have that indefinable “feel” to me. No durability issues but I place other cams before them. |
Nértovk Sklimnerwrote: I'm the same way - I still use my old thumb-looped Mastercams in small sizes to supplement my Totems and if they brought the thumb-loop back I'd replace them. |
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Totems. I don't have anything to contribute, I just noticed Totems hadn't been mentions for a few posts. |
Matt Swaimwrote: I thought this was the issue at first too, but definitely isn’t in this case. I tried manipulating the lobes along the axel with no luck in fixing the issue.
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