Elderid HMS Bulletproof Belay FG Carabiner with GriGri

I'm considering the Elderid HMS Bullet Proof FG locker for use as a belay biner, but I'm not convinced about the slider.  It looks like the hole in a GriGri or the like could slide over the slider and unlock the biner.  Not sure if I'm being paranoid about this.  Could anyone speak to its use with autobraking belay devices?

Not sure why you would want a steel insert carabiner with a grigri. The rope does not run across the carabiner with a grigri. I love the BD gridlock screw gate for the grigri (put the grigri in the small side).

Edit: To your question on the slide lock. I only consider slide locks to be semi-locking and I can see a grigri having the potential to unlock one. 

Best practice is to use a carabiner that prevents the Grigri from getting on the gate entirely.  With this carabiner that would mean turning it around so the Grigri sits in the small end, as I see no feature to trap the Grigri in the intended load area of the large end.

Alec Baker wrote:

You mean this one? This is the only slide lock carabiner made of steel I could find. Most of their other carabiners have either a slide lock, or a steel insert, but not usually both.

https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws-shop/hms-bulletproof-belay-fg

That's the one!

Webfootwrote:

Best practice is to use a carabiner that prevents the Grigri from getting on the gate entirely.  With this carabiner that would mean turning it around so the Grigri sits in the small end, as I see no feature to trap the Grigri in the intended load area of the large end.

Great suggestion!  Thanks!

If you want a fancy anti-cross loading carabiner for your grigri, check out the Grivel clepsydra s. DMM rhino and BD gridlock are also great options.

The steel insert on the edilrid doesn’t do anything  with a grigri. 

Eli Wwrote:

If you want a fancy anti-cross loading carabiner for your grigri, check out the Grivel clepsydra s.

I can confirm, this combo is very slick.  

Webfootwrote:

I can confirm, this combo is very slick.  

This looks perfect, but alas, it seems they're out of stock everywhere or maybe even out of production?  

Michael Abendwrote:

Edit: To your question on the slide lock. I only consider slide locks to be semi-locking and I can see a grigri having the potential to unlock one. 

I also found this interesting slider from an Austrian company that has the slider on a thicker gate that *probably* can't fit through a grigri hole and is recessed.  Thoughts on this approach?  Any better or same semi-locking?   austrialpin.at/en/products/…

I haven't held the AustrialAlpin 'slide lock' but it certainly looks real slick. In the marketing videos they make it looks like it's pretty difficult to unlock since the button is recessed. In regards to a grigri I think the grigri can still slip around the corner to the spine, if not also the gate. For my grigri I would rather use a more dedicated D shape or specialty carabiner like all those listed above. Additionally, I also use the Clepsydra S for my grigri and it's both bomber for orientation and bomber for watching my partners struggle mightily. The action is super easy once practiced though.

What problems are you trying to solve by changing the carabiner that you use to belay with your Grigri?  

I actually prefer either the Freino or the SMD with the simple twist lock (not the triact lock).  All I want from a carabiner in that position is that it autolocks, it's easy to handle, and it's reasonably light for the task.  I bought the Freino mostly to use in case I wanted to belay directly off an anchor and possibly lower from the top as it keeps the rope in the correct orientation.  Other than that specific case I've been very happy with the SMD.  My considerations would be different if the carabiner was a rope bearing surface but that's not a concern with a Grigri. 

El Duderinowrote:

This looks perfect, but alas, it seems they're out of stock everywhere or maybe even out of production?

Grivel carabiners in general seem hard to find in the US.  If there are other things you can combine to make the approximately $25 shipping charge reasonable Oliunid has them for $15.

The Clepsydra L also works well with the Grigri 3, if you put the gates on your left when belaying. Gates on the right is nearly as good but has a slight tendency to get stuck near the gate. It also takes some practice figuring out how to fit the grigri over the gates. Haven’t put hands on a clepsydra s to compare and also haven’t tried the 2, plus, or original grigri for fit. Not sure if availability is any better now for the L in the US either. I bought mine in 2020.

DMM Ceros is by far the best and much cheaper than the Freino. Just got one and it's way less hassle than the gridlock

Edwin Supplewrote:

The Clepsydra L also works well with the Grigri 3, if you put the gates on your left when belaying. Gates on the right is nearly as good but has a slight tendency to get stuck near the gate. It also takes some practice figuring out how to fit the grigri over the gates. Haven’t put hands on a clepsydra s to compare and also haven’t tried the 2, plus, or original grigri for fit. Not sure if availability is any better now for the L in the US either. I bought mine in 2020.

I have a couple of both the S and L (I was trying them out for TRS).

The S fully captures a grigri3 on the wide end— it will not fit onto the gate or spine, and it doesn’t get hung up anywhere. IMO a pretty sweet combo.

The L can catch the grigri on the top pivot point of the gate, and put some really weird forces on both the plates of the grigri and the carabiner. I wouldn’t use this combo.

The S pairs fantastically with a nanotrax, capturing it at the wide end of the carabiner without catching it on anything. A microtrax can get hung up on the wing/nose.

The L pairs well with a microtrax— it isn’t captured unless you put it in the small side with the wire gate, but it moves freely over both the gate and the spine without catching on anything. A nanotrax can get hung up where the roundstock rope bearing surface transitions to the “H” cross-section spine. 

Top: microtrax hung up on the wing/horn of a clepsydra s. Nanotrax has a smaller opening so it doesn’t have this issue.

Middle: Grigri3 with Clepsydra L, hung up on gate

Bottom: Grigri3 with clepsydra S, works fantastically

Jason4Toowrote:

What problems are you trying to solve by changing the carabiner that you use to belay with your Grigri? 

I used to belay with a standard issue screwlock carabiner, but I really wanted something autolocking because (I will admit) I forgot to screw it shut one time and I wanted to remove the human element from the equation.  I also wanted something that would prevent cross-loading.  Around that time, the Gridlock Magnetron was still available, and it seemed to fit my needs, especially in its simplicity.  I didn't much like tri-action autolockers, finding them finicky, especially with one hand.  Just the other day, the pin holding one of the magnets on the Magnetron seems to have fallen out, so now it only has one functioning magnet.  In searching for a replacement, I noticed the Magnetron, which I was happy with, was no longer available.  I briefly considered the DMM Belay Master, which at least ensures the screwgate is locked, but it's relatively heavy, and I don't want that plastic part flapping around when it's on my harness and not locked.  I am trying to avoid the tri-action autolockers, for the aforementioned reasons, and the sliders, as mentioned above, seem a bit too easily opened for my liking.  So that's more or less where things stand...

Eli Wwrote:

Top: Grigri3 with Clepsydra L, hung up on gate

Bottom: Grigri3 with clepsydra S, works fantastically

Thanks for posting this photo. I really need to buy a size S. I've heard from a reliable source that it pairs will with as Micro Traxion too (eg. for TRS)

Noel Zwrote:

Thanks for posting this photo. I really need to buy a size S. I've heard from a reliable source that it pairs will with as Micro Traxion too (eg. for TRS)

It works well with a nanotrax, but the microtrax can get hung up on the wing/horn. I use a nanotrax on a clepsydra S as my lower device and a microtrax on a clepsydra L as my upper for TRS.

I added a pic to my earlier post since images don’t play well with formatting on MP.

How come no one want to use what Petzl recommends?

Eli Wwrote:

It works well with a nanotrax, but the microtrax can get hung up on the wing/horn.

Yann Camus tests the micro and the Clepsydra here. Not a total fail if it gets stuck on the horn, but certainly not the most ideal carabiner set up.

Wictor Dahlströmwrote:

How come no one want to use what Petzl recommends?

I was curious to try the added friction hook part. Luckily, someone in my gym had it and was happy to let me play with it. Well, the hook definitely adds friction, I thought it was neat.
But, does it justify paying, almost, 3   times more than a typical twist lock? For example, quick search shows that  Mammut Sender Twistlock retails for 17USD, asking price for Petzl Freino is 50USD