Rock exotica soloist.

Patent is expired. That one looks slick. What’s the story?

Tradiban wrote:

Liability and patents.

Patent has been expired for over 10 years, and how would a self belay device have any more liability concerns than other climbing gear? "climbing is inherently dangerous, you're gonna die", plenty of devices are on the markets with deadly failure modes.

The real answer is probably more likely because it's an uber niche market that might sell a few hundred if priced right, however the tooling and assembly that would be needed to manufacture these would make it hard to make much if any of a profit with such low MOQ. 

Dylan McIntosh wrote:

Patent has been expired for over 10 years, and how would a self belay device have any more liability concerns than other climbing gear? "climbing is inherently dangerous, you're gonna die", plenty of devices are on the markets with deadly failure modes.

The real answer is probably more likely because it's an uber niche market that might sell a few hundred if priced right, however the tooling and assembly that would be needed to manufacture these would make it hard to make much if any of a profit with such low MOQ. 

I think you're right, I remember reading somewhere that was the main reason Rock Exotica discontinued them, they just weren't making much profit off them, if any, because of how little they sold. In fact, I think they said that's somewhat true even for normal consumer climbing gear. They make most of their money through commercial stuff like gear for filmmaking. So, if consumer climbing equipment is approaching too niche for profit, then a niche market within a niche market would be way not worth it

Dylan McIntosh wrote:

Patent has been expired for over 10 years, and how would a self belay device have any more liability concerns than other climbing gear? "climbing is inherently dangerous, you're gonna die", plenty of devices are on the markets with deadly failure modes.

The real answer is probably more likely because it's an uber niche market that might sell a few hundred if priced right, however the tooling and assembly that would be needed to manufacture these would make it hard to make much if any of a profit with such low MOQ. 

You're not wrong about the niche market but concerning liability, it costs alot to have your device tested and certified as suitable for life safety application, and that's not even considering liability insurance. 

    Well I guess we should figure out how much everyone’s willing to spend on them. It’s not going to be cheap. Two to three hundred is an easy possibility. Anybody want to pre-order for 50% so we know an exact number?
   Thanks for your patience

  Mike

Seems like a good candidate for a kickstarter. I would put money down, and given how many people have posted in this thread it seems like many other people would as well.

mikewhite wrote:

    Well I guess we should figure out how much everyone’s willing to spend on them. It’s not going to be cheap. Two to three hundred is an easy possibility. Anybody want to pre-order for 50% so we know an exact number?
   Thanks for your patience

  Mike

for the soloist or SP?

Manufacturing the Soloist again is a total waste of effort  time, and money IMO.  You can get the same functionality by using a Grillon or GG with a disabled  spring and held up with a chest harness/sling like the Soloist. Feeds just as well; locks up just as well; plus you can immediately lower at the top or any point in the climb without adding or swapping devices. It also has the same liability: the potential for not holding head- first falls. 

While I don't lead solo anymore (I'm 71),  I've used and modded the device for a friend who still use it that way. We've both found it to be a good as or better than the Soloist. As background I've owned just about every other possible device for lead solo (SP, Revo, Eddy). They all have their pros and cons. 

YMMV

Andy Wiesner wrote:

Patent is expired. That one looks slick. What’s the story?

Makes sense, it is an old product.

I am also interested in the story of the home-made SP. Had to have been done with proprietary documents.

I'm not sure if it was that guy or another one,  but there was a climber/machinist who had the patent-description and a SP he could take a part and measure and reverse engineer it.  Originally he was thinking about offering them for sale  and had a fair bit of interest, but then life/ reality entered the picture and he decided not too...or something like that. I think the estimated price was in the 500-700 range.  Might remember sone of that wrong.

What’s so special about these things? I have no clue! 

Probably one thing for many is that they were designed from the ground up for rope soloing and tested for that use. In reality they are probably no better than other devices people are using.  There is no perfect device.  It all depends upon what your experience, priorities, values, intended uses, and risk tolerances are. 

One of the things that is special about the Soloist is that you tie in with cord. It stays attached to your harness  the whole time you are climbing. I typically use a double wrap of 5.5mm spectra with a tripple barrel knot. Super mega bomber. And more compact than single 9mm cord. Back up knots are easy. 

Devices that require a carabiner attachment or have to be disconnected from the harness for multi pitch are not as confidence inspiring or convenient in my opinion.

I designed mine off of some pictures I found on the internet. Offshore fabrication is really competitive nowadays. It is surprising cheat to get one off parts machined. 

pph213 wrote:

I designed mine off of some pictures I found on the internet. Offshore fabrication is really competitive nowadays. It is surprising cheat to get one off parts machined. 

Ballsy, I like it!

pph213 wrote:

I designed mine off of some pictures I found on the internet. Offshore fabrication is really competitive nowadays. It is surprising cheat to get one off parts machined. 

Wait, you actually assembled "your" version of SP? Have you tried it out?

pph213 wrote:

I designed mine off of some pictures I found on the internet. Offshore fabrication is really competitive nowadays. It is surprising cheat to get one off parts machined. 

Got a link? Not a bad idea.

pph213 wrote:

I designed mine off of some pictures I found on the internet. Offshore fabrication is really competitive nowadays. It is surprising cheat to get one off parts machined. 

Wild. Did you fix the problem with the SP that it doesn’t work in freezing temps? 

mikewhite wrote:

    Well I guess we should figure out how much everyone’s willing to spend on them. It’s not going to be cheap. Two to three hundred is an easy possibility. Anybody want to pre-order for 50% so we know an exact number?
   Thanks for your patience

  Mike

The kickstarter idea is not a bad idea. But put me on the list for 50% down payment. 

Soloist are going for $200-300 range used. I'd be down for a new one at a competitive price point. 

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