Rainier: Liberty vs. Ptarmigan Ridge

Hi all,

Does anyone has first-hand experience on either of these routes and could pass along some intel?

In particular, I am interested in an honest assessment of the objective/overhead hazards on those two routes. Risk appetite is an individual thing, but Liberty Ridge strikes me as a route where you are testing luck as well as your own abilities. Team speed, single push vs. overnight, time of year, weather, route conditions etc all play a part, obviously. What’s your assessment of the route? 

Regarding Ptarmigan Ridge, is it generally any safer due to terrain and overhead exposure. I don’t trust my map/photo reading skills enough to make a reliable assessment. It looks less exposed than Liberty, but I’d love to hear from someone who has been there and can assess more accurately.

Thanks in advance.

I recall sitting in a hanger in talkeetna, reading about a local from my climbing community dying along with his entire guided party due to an avalanche from above on liberty ridge. I share this as a data point that even the professionals can succumb to the hazards above on liberty ridge (the entirety of these details were not available when I was initially reading about this tragedy). 

As someone who lives close by and has summited most of the NW volcanoes via various routes and never taken the easy ones: I never have had any desire to do liberty ridge. Too much time under hang fire that’s gonna go. It’s just a matter of if you’re under it when it does or not that will determine if you make it or not. The route isn’t that technical, just ballsy. Not my cup of tea, to each is own

no direct experience with Ptarmigan Ridge, but summited via liberty last year. lots of objective hazards, but they can be managed to a degree. the majority of rock/ice fall exists on the lower portion where the ridge is first gained, but this can be (somewhat) managed by leaving early am after temps drop enough for a good freeze. avi danger can be (again, somewhat) mitigated in advance based on weather, snowfall etc. 

the route is definitely ballsy, and there was a fatality in another party that was attempting to climb and ski back down while we were on our way up. IMO, due to changing climate, there is likely only a very small window each year when this route should be considered. too early and you face bad weather/significant avi danger. too late and you won't get low enough temps for good climbing conditions.

If i had to guess, i would say in 10-15 years this route would rarely be climbed anymore.

One thing to remember is that anecdotally Liberty is going to have more bad stories associated with it because it gets WAY more traffic (Ptarmigan has 28 ticks on MP, Liberty has 196).  Liberty gets all kinds of traffic from people flying in from out of state with limited Cascades experience, and even sees some guided parties.  That widespread reputation (50 classics, etc.) may also have an impact on the type and style of some ascents.

Having climbed both routes, I think it would be difficult to suggest that one is significantly more or less safe than the other.  They have different terrain and different types of hazard, but both are pretty serious (as is anything steep on Rainier's north side).

I think you are asking great questions and there is some good discussion going on. I will add in my .02 cents.

I would break down the hazards into 3 categories, rockfall, avalanche, and serac fall.  

1 - Rockfall hazard can be mostly mitigated by climbing when the temperatures are below freezing.  People used to think that camping at Thumb Rock was out of danger but several accidents have shown otherwise.  I wouldn't call that camp exceptionally dangerous in this regard but clearly it CAN happen.  When I climbed it we were 3hrs from camp on the Carbon to Thumb Rock and 4hrs from Thumb Rock to above the Black Pyramid.  Once there you are above any rockfall hazard.  So I would say it is reasonable to leave the Carbon Camp at 10pm and climb through the night arriving above rockfall hazard by sunrise.  This is assuming that you have good/low freezing levels overnight.

2 - Avalanche hazard is also fairly easy to mitigate.  As with any snow sport, avoid avalanche terrain after a storm and be aware of the recent snowpack and temperatures.  Avalanches on Rainier in June mostly occur in storm slabs or from significant recent warming/changes in the snowpack (although the risk for wind slab is also there).  If you are looking for a good cold stable weather than you pretty much are mitigating those hazards.  Obviously be aware and observant on the climb to snowpack signs and make sure that what you are expecting to find is what you are finding in terms of snow stability.

3 - Finally serac fall.  There are several points on this route that are in the fall line of seracs.  Having climbed all over the PNW and a bit in Alaska I would categorize Liberty Ridge Serac danger as moderate on the scale of none...little...moderate....severe....horrible.  Think like the serac issues you have on the DC when you traverse over to the cleaver proper but longer.  There is hazard at that point but you move quickly through it.  On Liberty Ridge though you might be in the "line" for a couple hours instead of 5-10 minutes.  The trouble with seracs is they can come down at any time....day or night...warm or cold...sun...overcast.  They are an objective danger that you can't control.  The only thing you can do is spend as little time as possible below them.

Putting it all together, for my risk tolerance, I would be comfortable doing Liberty Ridge in May/June with a solid weather window, low freezing levels, fit partner(s), and the plan of climbing it mostly by night.  As others have noted you tend to see more accidents on Liberty than Ptarmigan because it gets done so much more.  Anecdotally I was actually on route camped on Thumb Rock the day the helicopters searched and found the guided team that had an accident on route at the end of May 2014.  If you want more information regarding that incident I would be happy to have a private conversation via email. 

I have been on both routes as well as most of Rainier's other norwand routes from Curtis Ridge to Sunset Ridge.

Ptarmigan is less involved. Getting to Ptarmigan's high camp is hiking a snowfield. Getting to the high camp on Liberty requires navigating the Carbon Glacier as well as serac/avalanche potential from the Willis Wall.  Both camps are at ~3200m. Getting to the business of Ptarmigan requires a quick walk under a serac. After that there is not that much objective danger regardless of which option one takes at ~3500m. Another 250m higher the difficulties end and it is slog with some cracks to Liberty Cap with plenty of places to bivy along the way. All total ~650m of technical climbing with little objective danger. Liberty's business starts just after the bivy and ends on Liberty Cap some 1000m later. Along the way there is serac/avalanche danger. Bivying along the way is not a good option. The business on Liberty is longer but not as technical as on Ptarmigan.

The issue with Ptarmigan in recent times is it being in shape. The business section can easily melt out leaving a scree slope. Liberty lasts a bit longer but the lower slopes will melt out and become bowling for climbers. So with both routes timing is critical to get descent conditions. These days Memorial Day weekend more times than not when folks try to get on the hill.

Allen Sandersonwrote:

The issue with Ptarmigan in recent times is it being in shape. The business section can easily melt out leaving a scree slope. Liberty lasts a bit longer but the lower slopes will melt out and become bowling for climbers. So with both routes timing is critical to get descent conditions. These days Memorial Day weekend more times than not when folks try to get on the hill.

When we climbed Ptarmigan in July 2020, Liberty was far out of condition and may have been that way for some time.  Ptarmigan was still in great shape at that time, although certainly towards the end of its season.  I think we should be cautious about making generalizations about which routes last longer or when they are in, since it can vary so much year-to-year and as a function of weather patterns.

Having done both, neither are objectively "safe" routes. Liberty Ridge is likely the more dangerous of the two. Partner and I very nearly got killed by a collapsing serac near the top of it (probably from same zone that killed the big guided party in 2014). We got real real lucky (and the sun wasn't even quite up yet, on a cold day). 

When you see Tahoma/Rainier from a distance, Liberty Ridge is the "line" that stands out, and it is cool from a distance. Living in Seattle, I'd see it from points around the city: it sticks out as the shadow moves from east to west. You can watch the light play on the sharp outline of the ridge and think "damn that is pretty." The climbing itself is not very classic. Terrible and tiring sidehilling to Thumb Rock (which might fall on you while you're there); above that, not very steep snow and maybe some low-angle ice up high if you are lucky (and lucky to not get the chop from summit-zone seracs). In the future, it will mostly be a big mountain ski line with objective hazard. Like NW couloir on Shuksan in a way.  

Ptarmigan Ridge, the line isn't as strong. It's like a big blob on the west side of the north face of the mountain. But there is real steep snow and ice and rock - mostly fall-line. No sidehilling for the good parts. It's a hump to get there, would be more classic with a direct approach. You can't ski the crux rock and mixed steps. It's more of a climber's route. The objective hazard (from serac) is limited to about 10 minutes, rather than almost the whole time you are on the line (which could be 10+ hours for some). At high camp, we heard "the" ice cliff calve about 3 times in the middle of the night. We hustled under it in the morning and didn't die. 

Have little desire to do either again but if I had to choose based on objective likelihood of staying alive and actual real fun climbing, Ptarmigan is the better route on both counts. Liberty Ridge just looks and sounds cooler.  

Thanks everybody for weighing in - really useful information - I really appreciate your time and advice.

Of the 3 overhead hazards above, serac/ice fall is the one that disturbs me most. Rockfall danger can be gauged to some extent, and also mitigated by time of day and weather. Avalanche danger can also be gauged - not completely, but to an OK level. I am used to California conditions, which mean that the main risk in the late spring/early summer window is loose, wet slides, but things may be different further north on Rainier and on a northern aspect: more frequent and late snowfall, perhaps more persistent instabilities. But serac fall is mostly luck of the draw. I am probably OK with making a quick 10min downhill dash under the ice cliff on Ptarmigan, but the idea of spending hours on end under icefalls on Liberty gives me the creeps. Not for me. 

Do we know for a fact that the 2014 accident that involved the guided team on Liberty ridge was due to ice fall and not snow instability? Any intel on the cause of the other accidents on Liberty?

And to make doubly sure on one point, since there seems to be consensus but not unanimous in the replies above: is Ptarmigan ridge completely free of ice fall exposure after the traverse to climbers' right at the start of the route from high camp? I am looking at those bands to the right of the rock chimney, and also climbers' right further along as one slogs up after exiting the chimney. Is the fall line further right than the route for those ice bands by that point? Does the rib to the right of the chimney protect that section? Am I looking at bergschrund further along and not an ice band? Good photos here: http://www.markpthomas.com/mountaineering/trip-reports/washington/mt-rainier-ptarmigan-ridge

Thanks again.

ElGrecowrote:

Do we know for a fact that the 2014 accident that involved the guided team on Liberty ridge was due to ice fall and not snow instability? Any intel on the cause of the other accidents on Liberty?

I believe their snow camp literally fell off the mountain.  I don't remember any evidence of ice fall from above.

ElGrecowrote:

And to make doubly sure on one point, since there seems to be consensus but not unanimous in the replies above: is Ptarmigan ridge completely free of ice fall exposure after the traverse to climbers' right at the start of the route from high camp? I am looking at those bands to the right of the rock chimney, and also climbers' right further along as one slogs up after exiting the chimney. Is the fall line further right than the route for those ice bands by that point? Does the rib to the right of the chimney protect that section? Am I looking at bergschrund further along and not an ice band? Good photos here: http://www.markpthomas.com/mountaineering/trip-reports/washington/mt-rainier-ptarmigan-ridge

No you are not completely free, shit can drop from places one might not think can reach them and it still does. Rock fall is probably more of an issue.

ElGrecowrote:

And to make doubly sure on one point, since there seems to be consensus but not unanimous in the replies above: is Ptarmigan ridge completely free of ice fall exposure after the traverse to climbers' right at the start of the route from high camp? I am looking at those bands to the right of the rock chimney, and also climbers' right further along as one slogs up after exiting the chimney. Is the fall line further right than the route for those ice bands by that point? Does the rib to the right of the chimney protect that section? Am I looking at bergschrund further along and not an ice band? Good photos here: http://www.markpthomas.com/mountaineering/trip-reports/washington/mt-rainier-ptarmigan-ridge

Nothing up there is "completely free of ice fall exposure."  There are huge faces and seracs all over the place.

The majority of Ptarmigan is beneath huge cliffs of volcano choss rock; the risk of getting bonked in the head is real.  I think that it's a mistake to presume that it's significantly safer than Liberty.

Any intel on the cause of the other accidents on Liberty?

In my opinion the biggest contributor to Liberty accidents is simply lack of experience and preparedness.  Accidents tend to be the result of a variety of smaller factors, but if you read the accident reports or listen to the Sharp End type podcasts, you'll see a common theme in many (though not all) of these is inexperienced parties.  People underestimate the seriousness of a route like this because it's not fully described by the technical grade.  Parties go up there that don't have a ton of ice leading experience, or have never had to navigate an untracked glacier, and small things can snowball into a bigger issue.

ElGrecowrote:

Do we know for a fact that the 2014 accident that involved the guided team on Liberty ridge was due to ice fall and not snow instability? Any intel on the cause of the other accidents on Liberty?

NOTE: I am not here to play the blame game or say what people should have done. Hindsight is 20:20, and there are always more factors involved.  Also sometimes in the middle of a situation it is hard to take a step back and look at it critically, but I think it is important to analyze accidents and learn from them.

I don't think we will ever know with 100% certainty what happened on that incident because everyone died, but here are some of the facts. 

I was able to talk with not only the climbing rangers involved in the search and rescue but also other guides who were on the other side of the mountain at the same time and knew the inside story of this teams progress.  Also since we were climbing the same route only 2 days later we had a good idea of the conditions.  The following are a lot of little things that added up to this disaster.  

- Inflexible dates meant going up the mountain with an iffy forecast.  We were originally going to start on the day they did but we delayed due to the forecast.  It wasn't horrible but it wasn't great.
- Paying clients leads to an expectation of summit.
- Clients from sea level on the east coast with no acclimatization and limited experience.
- Bad weather forced the team to bivy at 13,000ft unexpectedly (we saw their tent platforms in the snow at 13k on our ascent 2 days later).
- Another day of bad weather at 13k (high winds) meant they were running low on food and fuel and needed to move down. (nobody summited this day even from the DC side due to winds).
- Moving inexperienced clients down technical terrain takes a lot of time and effort.
- Being out mid-day means warmer temps and more dangerous snow conditions (descended from 13k mid day after not being able to move up due to high winds).
- 48hrs above 10,000 ft with no acclimatization could mean altitude sickness.

As you can see any one of those things by themselves probably isn't an issue, but all of those things added together led to a disaster.  Honestly this is really the case with most accidents. Usually it isn't a single big thing, it is a list of things.  In the mountains I look for these "red flags" to come up.  If I see one I make a mental note and usually keep going, but once 2 or 3 pop up it is time to have an honest conversation with my partner about the risks involved.

Seeing we have some experienced folks who have been kind enough to answer in this thread, let me pose the question differently:

If one wanted some good quality moderate climbing (ice, snow, mixed) on Rainier that doesn't present the objective hazards of Liberty and Ptarmigan ridges, which would be logical routes?

Would be nice to swing some tools. If there's rock to contend with, so be it - that's not what the volcanoes are for. I am thinking of a step-up from the Kautz. Looked into W side/Sunset Ampheatet routes, but they don't appear technical. 

Kowtits! ultralite one way

ElGrecowrote:

Seeing we have some experienced folks who have been kind enough to answer in this thread, let me pose the question differently:

If one wanted some good quality moderate climbing (ice, snow, mixed) on Rainier that doesn't present the objective hazards of Liberty and Ptarmigan ridges, which would be logical routes?

Would be nice to swing some tools. If there's rock to contend with, so be it - that's not what the volcanoes are for. I am thinking of a step-up from the Kautz. Looked into W side/Sunset Ampheatet routes, but they don't appear technical. 

Look at Sunset Ridge ... not a lot of tools swinging, wee of bit glacier travel, some objective danger though, and some good exposure towards the top.